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Sentence Structure help

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Sentence Structure help

Postby rs1919 » Fri 12.05.2008 4:37 pm

I'm a beginner(as in never had someone's help with sentence structure or Japanese :P ) and need someone to check these sentences for mistakes (probably a lot lol, mistakes help learn though). I don't know kanji or katakana so, so far I've been writing in romaji or hiragana. Some of these words I looked up so please tell me if they are used incorrectly...

1.
kanojo wa watashino kuruma ga suki.
かのじょ は わたしの くるま が すき。

Intended to mean "She likes my car".

2.
watashi wa neko to inu ga kashikoi o desu.
わたし は ねこ と いぬ が かしこい お です。

Intended to mean "Both my cat and dog are smart" .. Not the exact words but sentence should mean the same thing.

3.
nani o aritsuita?
なに を ありついた?

Intended to mean "What did you get?"

4.
dare ga onushi desu?
だれ が おぬし です?

Intended to mean "Who are you?"

So am I doing okay at Japanese for a first try on making up sentences? Thank you for the help.
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby katafei » Fri 12.05.2008 5:14 pm

My 2 pennies:
kanojo wa watashino kuruma ga suki.
かのじょ は わたしの くるま が すき。


Intended to mean "She likes my car".
This one is fine

watashi wa neko to inu ga kashikoi o desu.
わたし は ねこ と いぬ が かしこい お です。

Intended to mean "Both my cat and dog are smart" .. Not the exact words but sentence should mean the same thing.

I think it should be
わたし  いぬ と ねこ  かしこい です
the の shows that the cat and dog belong to you
(or が?) show that it's the animals that are smart.

3.
nani o aritsuita?
なに を ありついた?

Intended to mean "What did you get?"

I don't think this ありつぎ is very common...
the most common way to say this would be:
なに を もらいました か
with 'もらう' , to receive.
you need the か particle to show the sentence is a question, although in speech, intonation might be enough.
(Not with polite language, I think)

Actually the whole giving and receiving bit is very complicated in Japanese. Lots of different words for different occasions...

dare ga onushi desu?
だれ が おぬし です?
[/quote]
Intended to mean "Who are you?"

御主; お主 【おぬし】 (pn,adj-no) (arch) you (when referring to one's equals or inferiors)
According to Jim Breen this おぬし is very archaic.
asking someone who they are is a very delicate matter in Japanese, I think.

Maybe you should ask: 'what is your name?'
あなた の なまえ は なに です か。
But I doubt anyone in Japan would ask it like this ^_^

still, all in all not too bad for a first try!



Darn, this is the first time I noticed the 'notify me when a reply is posted' box :lol:
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 12.05.2008 5:22 pm

Typically the best way to ask someone's name is just to say すみません、お名前は... and then they will tell you. It really depends, though -- this kind of thing is highly context and cultural dependent and it's not something that you can just give a simple one-to-one English-Japanese translation for.

For "smart", 頭がいい(あたま が いい) is a more standard term than かしこい. かしこい has a nuance to it that's hard for me to explain; it's a little more like "wise" than "smart" although even that's a tough difference in English.
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby rs1919 » Fri 12.05.2008 8:12 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Typically the best way to ask someone's name is just to say すみません、お名前は... and then they will tell you. It really depends, though -- this kind of thing is highly context and cultural dependent and it's not something that you can just give a simple one-to-one English-Japanese translation for.

For "smart", 頭がいい(あたま が いい) is a more standard term than かしこい. かしこい has a nuance to it that's hard for me to explain; it's a little more like "wise" than "smart" although even that's a tough difference in English.


Thank you so much for the feedback guys. Maybe the difference between wise and smart is that "wise" is like kind of saying to have more experience where as "smart" is like to do with IQ of the brain wise? Am I on the right track?

EDIT:
just noticed katafei that you wrote わたし の instead of わたしの. Am I supposed to put a space in the 'no' or is it okay either way?
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby richvh » Fri 12.05.2008 8:40 pm

When writing in all kana, Japanese tend to put a space after particles, Westerners tend to put spaces before and after particles. However, when you start adding kanji in, no spaces are used.
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby keatonatron » Fri 12.05.2008 10:40 pm

かしこい is closer to "clever" I think.

If your dog and cat worked together to move a chair next to the refrigerator, then stood on each other to reach the treats you hid up top, they would definitely be かしこい. However, if they're just "smart" in the sense that they obey your commands and know not to run in the street every time a car drives by, they would be 頭がいい.
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 12.05.2008 11:28 pm

I hear かしこい used quite a lot to refer to small children and animals, but 頭がいい not so often. I think 頭がいい refers more to intelligence.
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby Garappachi » Sat 12.06.2008 9:37 pm

何の文脈も与えられないで、印象は?と聞かれたら・・・

あの人は頭のいい人だから。
→技能・技術・知識に長じている。技能・技術・知識を身につける能力が高い。

あの人は賢い人だから。
→処世術に長けている。物事に対する対応能力が高い。
※皮肉な言い方に使われた時は「ずる賢い」。
「変わり者」を「個性的な方」、「いたずら小僧」を「活発なお子さん」と言うようなものですね。

以上はあくまで個人的な「印象」です。実際には文脈によって、どちらにも解釈できると思います。
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby Mür » Wed 01.21.2009 8:37 pm

If you still care:

katafei wrote:
kanojo wa watashino kuruma ga suki.
かのじょ は わたしの くるま が すき。


Intended to mean "She likes my car".
This one is fine

watashi wa neko to inu ga kashikoi o desu.
わたし は ねこ と いぬ が かしこい お です。

Intended to mean "Both my cat and dog are smart" .. Not the exact words but sentence should mean the same thing.

I think it should be
わたし  いぬ と ねこ  かしこい です
the の shows that the cat and dog belong to you
(or が?) show that it's the animals that are smart.



First sentence is not OK: suki is a -na adjective, and... because -wa is NOT a verb.. this sentence has no verb, so it must have a "desu" at the end.

Second sentence is OK, the explanation of -wa / -ga is that -wa marks what you are talking about, and -ga is subject as we understand. There can never be two -wa in a sentence (with exceptions, some structures can)
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby richvh » Wed 01.21.2009 9:03 pm

Actually, in casual speech, it would be 好きだ in masculine speech, but 好きだよ, 好きの or plain 好き in feminine speech, so the first sentence is ok, in at least some contexts.
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby Mür » Wed 01.21.2009 9:20 pm

Totally agreee XD, I wasn't even thinking of "da" xd, but... I think for a beginner it is easier not to say those "more advanced" bits of info.. unless they know the simple form and that things... and specify the gender makes it even more confuse (though correct)

I've listened women say only "suki da".. i think this has no gender limitations, it all depends on the context.

(We are taught really formal Japanese, but also informal... things of translation)
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 01.21.2009 11:07 pm

Mür wrote:There can never be two -wa in a sentence (with exceptions, some structures can)


Two wa particles in a sentence is extremely common, and not an "exception" to anything -- there is no rule that says "wa" can only occur once in a sentence.
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby Mür » Thu 01.22.2009 7:31 am

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
Mür wrote:There can never be two -wa in a sentence (with exceptions, some structures can)


Two wa particles in a sentence is extremely common, and not an "exception" to anything -- there is no rule that says "wa" can only occur once in a sentence.


You're talking about compost sentences, then, of course there can be two wa, one per verb. And contrast wa is also possible, more than one wa in a simple sentence. (I don't know what nomenclature is used is Enligh for this grammar)
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby NocturnalOcean » Thu 01.22.2009 7:26 pm

Mür wrote:
Yudan Taiteki wrote:
Mür wrote:There can never be two -wa in a sentence (with exceptions, some structures can)


Two wa particles in a sentence is extremely common, and not an "exception" to anything -- there is no rule that says "wa" can only occur once in a sentence.


You're talking about compost sentences, then, of course there can be two wa, one per verb. And contrast wa is also possible, more than one wa in a simple sentence. (I don't know what nomenclature is used is Enligh for this grammar)


It is still very common. Especsially containing a time expression.
Something like 私は今日は........
失敗は成功の元
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Re: Sentence Structure help

Postby Mür » Thu 01.22.2009 8:52 pm

That sounds really odd to me, I would use 今日 without は and with a coma. For me that sounds better. Hmmm.. maybe the other way round "kyou ha, watashi ha..." would sound better to me. But this maybe is used more in spoken japanese, or it is also very used in writen japanese? (it sounds to me more spoken)
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