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日本語の一年

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日本語の一年

Postby Hektor6766 » Tue 09.14.2010 4:20 pm

さて、私は一年も日本語を勉強しています。が困難されていなかったといえことはできません。しかし、の母国語の英語には話し始めて時から流暢に時まで(大学レベルの読解力)九年かかりました。そこで、それについていい気分です。頑張りつづけます。
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Re: 日本語の一年

Postby NileCat » Wed 09.15.2010 1:28 pm

いいですね、その調子で頑張って!
1年でそこまでできるなんて、すごい!

(添削した方がいいですか? Do you want your writing to be corrected like a kind of exam at school? )
:)
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Re: 日本語の一年

Postby Hektor6766 » Wed 09.15.2010 6:32 pm

ぜひどうぞ。何か間違ってを訂正して下さい。結局、習うが欲しい。

でも、大学の試験もういいんです!
:lol:
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Re: 日本語の一年

Postby NileCat » Thu 09.16.2010 12:30 pm

さて、私は一年も日本語を勉強しています。
→ Fine!


が困難されていなかったといえことはできません。

が → "But", right?
困難されていなかったといえことは doesn't make sense.
できません → "You can't", right?

Let's see what you wanted to say by 困難されていなかったといえことは.
I guess you chose the word 困難 to mention something like "tough" or "hard".
Then you tried to add a verb to mention "considered to be tough", I suppose.
Then you tried to use the double-negative form to say that you can't say your study was not considered to be tough, I guess.
In that case, it should be 困難でなかったと言うことはできません。
However, in this case, the word 困難 itself is already has a kind of negative meaning. So, virtually, it is triple-negative, which sounds awkward. Also if you use the word "but" at the top of the sentence, it would be the fourth negative word.
How about simply saying "I don't mean to say it was easy", instead?
簡単だったと言うつもりはありません。
How does it sound to you?

Next,
しかし、→ However
の母国語の英語には
Sorry, did you forget to type 私?
And, the usage of には sounds off to me.
話始めて時から → 話始めた時から
流暢に時まで → 流暢になるまでに
9年かかりました seems fine.

Ok, even in your mother tongue, English, it took you nine years to be fluent since you started talking, correct?
しかし、母国語の英語でも、話始めてから流暢になるまでに9年かかりました。

そこで、それについていい気分です。
そこで → "Therefore", right?
それについて → What the それ means here?
The fact that you took nine years to acquire English? ...Maybe not. Your いい気分 comes from that even if you have studied Japanese only for a year though you have achieved to certain extent, correct?

Then, let me try to re-write your whole sentences.
さて、私は一年も日本語を勉強しています。簡単だったと言うつもりはありません。しかし、私の母国語の英語だって、話し始めてから流暢になるまでには9年かかりました。それを思うと、日本語の上達についてはいい気分です。これからも頑張りつづけます。

What do you make of it, Dr.Watson?
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Re: 日本語の一年

Postby Hektor6766 » Thu 09.16.2010 6:17 pm

I've heard that only a very few can go for a quadruple negative without injuring themselves. :lol:

といえ was a typo (although といえる is out there, but not in the negative?) .

Could I have said 難しくなかったと言うことはできなせん? or 易しかったと言うことはできません?
(It seems that on Space ALC 簡単 is the heavy favorite.)

簡単だったと言うつもりはありません。
"As for simple (it) was to say intent , is not." I get it, but I wouldn't have come up with it. "To intend" is a verb for us. Is the "noun phrase+is/is not" the preferred construction?

始め-began we're talking a long, long time ago.

になる It wasn't instantaneous fluency. (I was reading college-entry level material by fourth grade, that would be about nine years from when I first burbled "mama" and "da-da".) Oh, and with the には I was trying to convey my own particular case, as oppose to others.

Pronouns. I've learned that it's bad practice to keep using first person, and the possessive の can suffice. But that may have its limits. Similar to the これからも: I was hoping the verb alone would carry the idea.

それを思うと、日本語の上達についてはいい気分です。
"With this to consider, As for concerning the progress of Japanese language, (my?) feeling is good." You're saying the personal tone of 気分 carries the first person possessive? Like 自分, or in a general reluctance to ascribe feelings to others?

The について and は together are a surprise to me. But if the についてis modifying only 上達 as its object and は is governing the entire phrase...

Elementary, Holmes?
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Re: 日本語の一年

Postby NileCat » Fri 09.17.2010 12:04 pm

Thank you for your precise answers.


Could I have said 難しくなかったと言うことはできなせん? or 易しかったと言うことはできません?
(It seems that on Space ALC 簡単 is the heavy favorite.)

Those two sentences sound fine except for a typo. (できません)
Sorry but I don't get the meaning of "heavy favorite". You mean it sounds stiff? Well, we use the word very frequently in our daily conversation. Like そんなの簡単さ!(It's a piece of cake!) We sometimes intentionally avoid 易しい because it is confusing with 優しい.

簡単だったと言うつもりはありません。
"As for simple (it) was to say intent , is not." I get it, but I wouldn't have come up with it. "To intend" is a verb for us. Is the "noun phrase+is/is not" the preferred construction?

~するつもりはありません is a useful expression.

あなたを傷つけるつもりはありませんでした
I didn't mean to hurt you.
それについて何も言うつもりはありません
I'm not going to say anything about it.
お邪魔(長居)をするつもりはありません
I don't want to impose on you.


になる It wasn't instantaneous fluency. (I was reading college-entry level material by fourth grade, that would be about nine years from when I first burbled "mama" and "da-da".) Oh, and with the には I was trying to convey my own particular case, as oppose to others.

Ok, I got it. But, could you give me the sentence in English? It seems challenging to convey the nuance in one sentence. Because it seems you want to express "9 years is long compared to 1 year" and "your 9 years were short compared to other people" at the same time...


Pronouns. I've learned that it's bad practice to keep using first person, and the possessive の can suffice. But that may have its limits. Similar to the これからも: I was hoping the verb alone would carry the idea.

You're right. The meaning is clear.
I just added the word because, in your original post, you were looking back your past year and mentioned about your future at the ending sentence. It seemed to me that you were making a kind of "resolution" for coming year.
e.g. よろしくお願いします vs. これからもよろしくお願いします

それを思うと、日本語の上達についてはいい気分です。
"With this to consider, As for concerning the progress of Japanese language, (my?) feeling is good." You're saying the personal tone of 気分 carries the first person possessive? Like 自分, or in a general reluctance to ascribe feelings to others?

"Feel good!" can mean "I feel good!", can't it? Same thing. (私は)いい気分です。"いい気分" is not a noun here. It's "na-adjective".

The について and は together are a surprise to me. But if the についてis modifying only 上達 as its object and は is governing the entire phrase...

Forget it.
I misunderstood your original meaning. I just thought... You described two things. a)It took nine years b)It took one year ... And I just thought you wanted to say "you feel good about B ONLY"... Never mind.
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Re: 日本語の一年

Postby Hektor6766 » Sat 09.18.2010 2:07 am

Thank you. I believe he more I can reveal my thought processes to you, the more precisely you can point out when and how I'm mistaken.

NileCat wrote:Sorry but I don't get the meaning of "heavy favorite". You mean it sounds stiff?

Pardon my slang. By "heavy favorite" I mean 簡単 seems the much preferred way to express "easy"; and the noun would be more flexible than the い or true adjective (though I do like the word play that 易しい and 優しい offer).

NileCat wrote:しかし、の母国語の英語には話し始めて時から流暢に時まで(大学レベルの読解力)九年かかりました。


"However, in my native language of English, from the time I first began to speak to the time I became fluent (college-level reading comprehension) took nine years."

Now that I look at it, I think it should be 私の英語の母国語に… I intended to emphasize that with the advantage of being fully, actively, abundantly immersed in the language it took nine years to achieve a generally accepted level of adult fluency, not to imply any prodigiousness on my part. So, though my strategies, methods and resources are now more sophisticated, I lack that full immersion, and it may take an equal amount of time, even with more conscious effort, to achieve that same level of fluency. You're right: plenty of nuance to pack into that little sentence.

NileCat wrote:"Feel good!" can mean "I feel good!", can't it? Same thing. (私は)いい気分です。"いい気分" is not a noun here. It's "na-adjective".


Actually, I stated my question incorrectly. In 日本語の上達についてはいい気分です。, without saying 私の日本語の上達..., is it clear that I'm referring to my progress with the language (since the いい気分です is obviously my state of mind)?
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Re: 日本語の一年

Postby NileCat » Sat 09.18.2010 1:58 pm

"However, in my native language of English, from the time I first began to speak to the time I became fluent (college-level reading comprehension) took nine years."

しかし、母国語の英語では、話し始めてから流暢(大学レベルの読解力)になるまで、9年かかりました。
If you want to add the word 私, well,
しかし、私の母国語の英語では、話し始めてから流暢(大学レベルの読解力)になるまで、9年かかりました。

I was surprised to see the English phrase "in my native language of English", to be honest. I didn't know the usage of "of".
In Japanese, 英語の母国語 sounds off, I'm afraid. It sounds as if "English's mother tongue".(possession)
母国語の英語 means 母国語である英語. Like "English as (my) mother tongue". Here "の" indicates something equal. e.g. 昨日の日曜日(Sunday, yesterday)

Actually, I stated my question incorrectly. In 日本語の上達についてはいい気分です。, without saying 私の日本語の上達..., is it clear that I'm referring to my progress with the language (since the いい気分です is obviously my state of mind)?

That's correct. But it would also be fine if you add 私の here.
:)
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