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RE: Math

Postby Tspoonami » Sun 10.08.2006 4:27 pm

I think mathematics are most often written in Arabic characters, seeing as how it is those characters that were used when the basis of modern math was being 'invented...' The actual Arabic numbers that you see in the Middle East look almost exactly like the ones thought of as 'English.' It would make sense for the writing system of math to be that which the majority of it was 'invented' in. And mathematics 'invented' in any other writing system would be written in that writing system... Just to throw that out there.

I read somewhere that even though things are written the same, they are read out differently depending on the language. Like '2+2' may be pronounced 'two plus two,' 'dos y dos,' 'deux et deux,' etc. [Please excuse my French.]
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RE: Math

Postby tanuki » Sun 10.08.2006 4:47 pm

Tspoonami wrote:
The actual Arabic numbers that you see in the Middle East look almost exactly like the ones thought of as 'English.'


Not "English". They are Hindu-Arabic or Western or European, but not "English". In fact, I had never heard of anyone referring to them as "English", is that a new trend or something? (an English trend? ;))

Tspoonami wrote:
I read somewhere that even though things are written the same, they are read out differently depending on the language. Like '2+2' may be pronounced 'two plus two,' 'dos y dos,' 'deux et deux,' etc. [Please excuse my French.]


I respect you and I respect everyone here so I won't write what I'm thinking right now. Just let me just ask you: How were you expecting it to be?
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RE: Math

Postby Tspoonami » Sun 10.08.2006 5:36 pm

tanuki wrote:Not "English". They are Hindu-Arabic or Western or European, but not "English". In fact, I had never heard of anyone referring to them as "English", is that a new trend or something? (an English trend? ;))

I was referring to them as 'English,' because some of the people in this thread were referring to them as that, so I just wanted to make sure they understood what I was saying. Notice the quotation marks in my post! :D

Tspoonami wrote:I respect you and I respect everyone here so I won't write what I'm thinking right now. Just let me just ask you: How were you expecting it to be?

I wasn't expecting it to be different; I was just saying that the same thing is written the same way, but read differently depending on the language... I probably could have worded it differently, but I wasn't trying to imply that it would be read one way everywhere. Rather, I was backing up my previous statement that people everywhere use Arabic characters rather than characters they have in their writing system [though I probably shouldn't have given all three examples in Latin-based laguages...]. I guess to you it sounded stupid, but I think you misinterpreted my post.

:D

Basic thing: Math is written in Arabic characters because that is the way it was first [kind of] written, but is read out loud differently depending on the language, as would be expected.
Last edited by Tspoonami on Sun 10.08.2006 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Math

Postby Mike Cash » Sun 10.08.2006 5:45 pm

Tspoonami wrote:

Basic thing: Math is written in Arabic characters because that is the way it was first [kind of] written


You mean math had to wait for the invention of Arabic numerals before it could be invented?

Amazing how the ancient world managed to carry out so much commerce and engineering without math....
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RE: Math

Postby hungryhotei » Sun 10.08.2006 6:34 pm

tanuki wrote:

Not "English". They are Hindu-Arabic or Western or European, but not "English". In fact, I had never heard of anyone referring to them as "English", is that a new trend or something? (an English trend? ;))


It is interesting to note that most English people will write some numerals like 1 and 7 differently from people from other European countries. (eg most English people will write one like l not 1 and not cross their sevens)
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RE: Math

Postby Tspoonami » Sun 10.08.2006 6:36 pm

Now you guys are just picking on me.

:D <--(smiley face indicates that I am not angry)

I harbor no ill feelings towards anyone, so please don't read this with an angry tone. If you find a flaw in my reasoning or satements, please provide evidence to back up your reply. But, if you misunderstand what I say, it is not [entirely] my fault. And, only hearing what you want to hear is definitely not my fault.

(Read whichever response you choose)

Mike Cash wrote:You mean math had to wait for the invention of Arabic numerals before it could be invented? Amazing how the ancient world managed to carry out so much commerce and engineering without math....

Response 1: In a way, yes, many parts of math did have to wait for the invention of Arabic numerals. Until those were invented, there was no recording of many aspects of modern math which were "invented" by the Arabs and Hindus. Ancient trade consisted primarily of the four basic functions and their different forms, and not much else. Yes, there were complex mathematics in existence, like architectural geometry but those basically got absorbed into what the Arabs and Hindus wrote down. My point is that math is written all over the world in Arabic characters because the most significant recordings of ancient mathematics were written in that form. 'Recordings' of math such as gigantic pyramids, are not included in my statements.
Other peoples created their own forms of math, but if they were efficient, they were often absorbed into Arabic mathematics, and rewritten, thus causing the spread of Arabic numerals. But, the same written numerals are/were pronounced differently depending on where you are/were.

(This is primarily irrelevant, no?)

Mike Cash wrote:You mean math had to wait for the invention of Arabic numerals before it could be invented? Amazing how the ancient world managed to carry out so much commerce and engineering without math....

Response 2: Basically, yeah.
Last edited by Tspoonami on Sun 10.08.2006 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Math

Postby Mike Cash » Sun 10.08.2006 7:01 pm

hungryhotei wrote:
tanuki wrote:

Not "English". They are Hindu-Arabic or Western or European, but not "English". In fact, I had never heard of anyone referring to them as "English", is that a new trend or something? (an English trend? ;))


It is interesting to note that most English people will write some numerals like 1 and 7 differently from people from other European countries. (eg most English people will write one like l not 1 and not cross their sevens)


At work I constantly get crap for writing 4 and 9 differently from the way Japanese generally do.
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RE: Math

Postby tanuki » Sun 10.08.2006 11:07 pm

Tspoonami wrote:
I was referring to them as 'English,' because some of the people in this thread were referring to them as that, so I just wanted to make sure they understood what I was saying. Notice the quotation marks in my post! :D


Erm...just one person above you had used "English numbers" and I *screamed* it was wrong. But, anyway, I'm glad you know better. :)

By the way:
Tspoonami wrote:
Tspoonami wrote:I respect you and I respect everyone here so I won't write what I'm thinking right now. Just let me just ask you: How were you expecting it to be?


My username is not Tspoonami. ;)


------

Mike Cash wrote:
At work I constantly get crap for writing 4 and 9 differently from the way Japanese generally do.


For real or was that a joke? How can "9" be written other than so ->9<- ? Kanji?
Last edited by tanuki on Sun 10.08.2006 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Math

Postby Mike Cash » Sun 10.08.2006 11:26 pm

tanuki wrote:


For real or was that a joke? How can "9" be written other than so ->9<- ? Kanji?


I was taught to begin the loop at the upper right, make the loop counter-clockwise, then make the downward part.

Japanese generally begin the loop at the junction with the leg, make the loop clockwise, and continue with the downward stroke in a single motion.

When written quickly, the two look very different.

And, no, I wasn't joking.
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RE: Math

Postby tanuki » Mon 10.09.2006 1:57 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
I was taught to begin the loop at the upper right, make the loop counter-clockwise, then make the downward part.

Japanese generally begin the loop at the junction with the leg, make the loop clockwise, and continue with the downward stroke in a single motion.

When written quickly, the two look very different.

And, no, I wasn't joking.


Ah, I was taught the same way as you. I understand now.
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RE: Math

Postby Infidel » Mon 10.09.2006 5:10 pm

hungryhotei wrote:

(eg most English people will write one like l not 1 and not cross their sevens)


If there is one thing that annoys me as the auditor here, it's those crossed sevens from our European summer workers. They look far too much like 9s and those 1s look like 7s. Drives me crazy adding up the ledgers. I mean, if you want to put a hook on the 1s, then don't forget the base too. And if you want to cross the 7s, then drop the serif.
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