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tadashiku shite kudasai

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tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby sampaguita » Sat 11.25.2006 11:16 am

Does this conversation make sense at all?


A: Yamada Kumiko san to iu hito wo shitte imasu ka?
B: Iie, shiranai.
A: Hontou ni? Kinou, anata to isshoni iru koto wo mita yo.
B: Sono hito wa Mariko to iu hito desu yo. Mada Kumiko to iu koto wo kiita koto ga arimasen.
A: Sorede, Kumiko san wa futago ga iru deshou.


Can you please translate it for me? So I know how the experts understand this (maybe I'm writing it wrong!) If it's correct (most likely not), is it well written?

Arigatou gozaimasu!
Last edited by sampaguita on Sun 11.26.2006 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 11.25.2006 11:29 am

I can definitely understand the meaning, but there are a few odd things.

"Mou Kumiko to iu koto wo kiita koto ga arimasen" I would express as "Kumiko to iu hito wa shiranai." I don't think that "kiita koto nai" is usually used for people, since in Japanese, "shiru" can just mean "heard of" and doesn't imply a relationship. In particular, using "to iu koto" with a person doesn't sound right.

the "isshoni iru koto wo mita" and "futago ga iru" raise slight red flags for me but I'm not confident enough to actually correct them -- let's see what someone else says.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby sampaguita » Sun 11.26.2006 7:52 am

Thanks a lot! Would "Prada to iu koto wo kiita koto ga aru" make sense? (Prada=the brand) By the way, I changed the "Mou Kumiko to iu koto..." to "Mada Kumiko to iu koto..." I think that changes some things...

I hope other experts will shed light on "isshoni iru koto wo mita" and "futago ga iru".

Anyway, this was what I wanted to say in English:

A: Do you know a person named Kumiko Yamada?
B: No, I don't.
A: Really? I saw her with you yesterday.
B: That person's named Mariko. I haven't heard of somebody named Kumiko.
A: Then Kumiko may have a twin...
Last edited by sampaguita on Sun 11.26.2006 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby Kagemaru » Sun 11.26.2006 10:05 am

Some parts I feel in your situation are a little unnatural sounding, so for the moment I would like to point out one clear error, and some suggestions, rather than reforming it into something above your level.(No condescension implied)

1. You wrote:
Hontou ni? Kinou, anata to isshoni iru koto wo mita yo.
This should read:
ほんとうに?昨日貴方と一緒にいるところを見ました。
Hontou ni? kinou, anata to issohoni iru tokoro wo mita/mimashita.

Tokoro is the situation in this case, not to be confused with tokoro for location.

2.You wrote:
Sorede, Kumiko san wa futago ga iru deshou.

This sounds strange to me as the speaker is saying for certain that Kumiko is a twin. Usually they are twins. right?

As later you gave your English translation as:
Then, Kumiko may have a twin.
There is more than one way to skin a cat here, but I would say in that case:
それで、二人は双子かもしれません。
Sorede, Futari ha futago kamo shiremasen==> They might be twins.

3. Kiita koto ga arimasen is strange when used with people.
You could say I haven't heard the name of so and so rather than I haven't heard of so and so. But it is a mouthful, and I feel unnecessarily long.

I think:
組子なんて知りません。
Kumiko nante shirimasen sounds better, others may disagree.

Hopefully that helped a little.
Last edited by Kagemaru on Sun 11.26.2006 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby witega » Sun 11.26.2006 8:36 pm

sampaguita wrote:
Does this conversation make sense at all?


A: Yamada Kumiko san to iu hito wo shitte imasu ka?
B: Iie, shiranai.
A: Hontou ni? Kinou, anata to isshoni iru koto wo mita yo.
B: Sono hito wa Mariko to iu hito desu yo. Mada Kumiko to iu koto wo kiita koto ga arimasen.
A: Sorede, Kumiko san wa futago ga iru deshou.


I'm not sure, since the previous posters who both know more than I didn't mention it, but the politeness shifts in this dialogue seem odd to me. Depending on the relationship, one person might use -masu form while the other uses plain, but you have both of them switching back forth for no reason I can see.
A: -masu
B: plain-form
A: plain-form
B: -masu
A: -masu
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby kohyin » Sun 11.26.2006 10:16 pm

A: Yamada Kumiko san to iu hito wo shitte imasu ka?
Suggestion: Yamada Kumiko to iu hito wo shitte imasu ka?

B: Iie, shiranai.
Possible response to the polite form above may be, "Sah, shirimasen"

A: Hontou ni? Kinou, anata to isshoni iru koto wo mita yo.
Suggestion: Hontou ni? Kinou, anata to isshoni iru tokoro wo mimashita yo.
If you start in polite form, it is most likely that you will continue on in polite form unless you end up getting upset and start arguing.

B: Sono hito wa Mariko to iu hito desu yo. Mada Kumiko to iu koto wo kiita koto ga arimasen.
Suggestion: Anataga mitano wa Mariko dato omoi masu. Kumio to iu hito niwa attakotoga arimasen kara. (you must have seen Mariko. I have never met Kumiko before.)

A: Sorede, Kumiko san wa futago ga iru deshou.
Suggestion: Sorede wa, Mariko wa Kumiko no futago no shimai kamo shiremasen ne. (In that case , I wonder if Mariko is Kumiko's twin sister.)

Just a suggestion...
Last edited by kohyin on Sun 11.26.2006 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby sampaguita » Mon 11.27.2006 7:24 am

Kagemaru wrote:

1. You wrote:
Hontou ni? Kinou, anata to isshoni iru koto wo mita yo.
This should read:
ほんとうに?昨日貴方と一緒にいるところを見ました。
Hontou ni? kinou, anata to issohoni iru tokoro wo mita/mimashita.

Tokoro is the situation in this case, not to be confused with tokoro for location.

3. Kiita koto ga arimasen is strange when used with people.
You could say I haven't heard the name of so and so rather than I haven't heard of so and so. But it is a mouthful, and I feel unnecessarily long.

I think:
組子なんて知りません。
Kumiko nante shirimasen sounds better, others may disagree.

Hopefully that helped a little.


Thanks to all for helping me!!!!

I still have some questions though:

1. What does "nante" mean? Is it a shortcut for another expression?
2. When do I use this particular usage of "tokoro" (did my question make sense?)

Sorry for not understanding. :(
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby paul_b » Mon 11.27.2006 7:49 am

Sorry to divert from the topic of this thread but it occurs to me that people who ask questions in kana/kanji don't get answers from people who can't read kana/kanji. People who ask questions in romaji don't (usually) get answers from people who hate romaji.

So which of the above pair are better off?
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby sampaguita » Mon 11.27.2006 9:33 am

of course, those who ask questions in kana/kanji, because they tend to attract the people who KNOW Japanese. Those who ask questions in romaji, on the contrary, will attract those who know a little Japanese, and the experts who have the patience to deal with beginners.

I know kana and a few kanji. But then, I'm afraid I may not be able to understand the replies, which will probably be in kanji/kana. But asking the readers to please reply in romaji won't do any good, will it?
Last edited by sampaguita on Mon 11.27.2006 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby kohyin » Mon 11.27.2006 11:54 am

sampaguita wrote:
Kagemaru wrote:

1. You wrote:
Hontou ni? Kinou, anata to isshoni iru koto wo mita yo.
This should read:
ほんとうに?昨日貴方と一緒にいるところを見ました。
Hontou ni? kinou, anata to issohoni iru tokoro wo mita/mimashita.

Tokoro is the situation in this case, not to be confused with tokoro for location.

3. Kiita koto ga arimasen is strange when used with people.
You could say I haven't heard the name of so and so rather than I haven't heard of so and so. But it is a mouthful, and I feel unnecessarily long.

I think:
組子なんて知りません。
Kumiko nante shirimasen sounds better, others may disagree.

Hopefully that helped a little.


Thanks to all for helping me!!!!

I still have some questions though:

1. What does "nante" mean? Is it a shortcut for another expression?
2. When do I use this particular usage of "tokoro" (did my question make sense?)

Sorry for not understanding. :(


1. "nante" is a shortcut for "nado to iu hito wa" in this case.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby paul_b » Mon 11.27.2006 12:07 pm

kohyin wrote:
1. "nante" is a shortcut for "nado to iu hito wa" in this case.


Incidentally, I'm responsible for the (attempted) separation of なんて from 何て in WWWJDIC.

なんて (suf) (1) (See 何て) such as; (things) like; (2) exclamation; (P)
何て 【なんて】 (adj-pn,adv) (1) how ..!; what ..!; (2) what (questioning); (P)

They do have separate entries in 大辞林, but I suspect many people aren't aware that there are (supposedly) two different words.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby kohyin » Mon 11.27.2006 12:39 pm

paul_b wrote:
kohyin wrote:
1. "nante" is a shortcut for "nado to iu hito wa" in this case.


Incidentally, I'm responsible for the (attempted) separation of なんて from 何て in WWWJDIC.

なんて (suf) (1) (See 何て) such as; (things) like; (2) exclamation; (P)
何て 【なんて】 (adj-pn,adv) (1) how ..!; what ..!; (2) what (questioning); (P)

They do have separate entries in 大辞林, but I suspect many people aren't aware that there are (supposedly) two different words.


Other ways of using "nante" that I can think of are:
Nante itta no? -- What did (you) say?
Nante kotta! -- short for "Nanto iu koto da" -- It's hard to translate but I would say it when I see something went very wrong.
Nante hidoi hito deshou! -- What a terrible person! -- we would also say "Nante hito deshou!" for the same meaning.
Nante ittara iikashira. -- I wonder how I should put it -- we would also say "Dou ittara iikashira." for the same meaning.
Ano hito nante itta kana? -- short for "ano hito no namae wa nandatta kana? -- What was his name?

Another example of "nante" used as a short for "nado to wa":
Kou iu koto ni naru nante omotte mo mimasen deshita. -- Kou iu koto ni naru nado to wa omotte mo mimasen deshita. -- I could never even imagine this negative result (not a direct translation).

I imagine one would be pretty comfortable with speaking in Japanese if he/she can manipulate "nante".
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby Kagemaru » Mon 11.27.2006 1:22 pm

sampaguita wrote:
When do I use this particular usage of "tokoro"


This one is tough if you havent grasped the understanding of how Japanese explain situations. I only pointed this one out because it was a clear mistake within your sentence.
I would like to say(and many more may say the same) I originally gave myself countless hours of unnecessary stress trying to come up with English equivalents of such and such without any effect. What a happy day when I could finally let go of trying to do so. I can't say whether this can only be achieved by living here or not.

Here is the easiest example of the use of tokoro I could come up with at 02:19 am:

彼は出かけたところです。
Kare ha dekaketa tokoro desu. Something like:
The situation is, he has just left.

Edit: Excuse me to edit so late I just thought of using tokoro for something you are about to do:

彼は出かけるところです。
Kare ha dekakeru tokoro desu.
He is about to leave.

paul_b wrote:
Sorry to divert from the topic of this thread but it occurs to me that people who ask questions in kana/kanji don't get answers from people who can't read kana/kanji. People who ask questions in romaji don't (usually) get answers from people who hate romaji.

So which of the above pair are better off?


I hate the site of roma-ji. But at some lengths I would help someone out once or twice. I try to give both to encourage those to learn the scripts, as I am still struggling myself with kanji.

kohyin wrote:
"nante" is a shortcut for "nado to iu hito wa" in this case.


Beat me to it thanks.

kohyin wrote:
I imagine one would be pretty comfortable with speaking in Japanese if he/she can manipulate "nante".


When I first came across it, I had a very hard time finding a textbook that could explain it succinctly. I have only picked it up from hearing.
My Japanese however is a long long way from comfortable.
Last edited by Kagemaru on Tue 11.28.2006 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: tadashiku shite kudasai

Postby sampaguita » Wed 11.29.2006 9:33 am

If "-u/ru form + tokoro" means "about to ____", then "anata to isshoni iru tokoro wo mita/mimashita" would mean "I saw her just about to be with you."

I don't doubt your correction. I just don't understand the logic of the usage of tokoro in the conversation. Sorry...
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