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ものだ examples.

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ものだ examples.

Postby Teh_Freak » Tue 07.03.2007 4:51 pm

Just practicing the usage of the ものだ construction, any corrections greatly appreciated.

I'd like to see the movie alone.
一人で映画を見たいもんだ。

I got that watch 'cause it's cheap.
その時計を買った安いもの。

You should read a few magazines.
あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読むものです。

I hear you used to throw rocks at cars.
君は車に岩石を投げたものだそうです。

The second and fourth examples are urking me a bit, especially the last one. Would I use ものだそうだ to express "I hear you used to..." or is there another way to say this?
Last edited by Teh_Freak on Tue 07.03.2007 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ものだ examples.

Postby a_iwai » Tue 07.03.2007 10:03 pm

"〜ものだ" is used in the cases indicated below.

1) A sentence "___A___は___B___ものだ" means "It is common / normal that ____A____ is ____B____. (Therefore, it is a matter of course.)"

人はいつかは死ぬものだ
A person dies someday.

2) To emphasize a meaning of a hope / wish.

3) To express a recollection: a experience that was repeated before.

4) To express a surprise: evaluation.


その時計を買った安いもの。
"that watch is cheap" It is not always common reason to buy the watch, I think.

あなたのためを思えば、時計なんて安いものです。
If I think of your sake, such the watch is a cheap thing.

あなたはよく喫茶店で雑誌を読んだものです
(I remember that) You had often read magazines in the coffee shop.

君は車に岩石を投げたものだそうです。
If it is used to express a recollection, this sentence is right, I think.

I hear you used to throw rocks at cars.
あなたはよく車に岩を投げたと聞きます。
(あなたはよく車に岩を投げたそうです。
あなたはよく車に岩を投げたということです。)
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RE: ものだ examples.

Postby coco » Wed 07.04.2007 7:00 am

Teh_Freak wrote:
You should read a few magazines.
あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読むものです。

I assume you tried to make 1) usage of Iwai-san's classification.
In this case,"Should" may work as you wrote.
e.g.
本は静かな場所で読む(べき)ものです。
You should read books at a quiet place.
In this case you can't say あなたは静かな場所で本を読むものです。
We rather say あなたは静かな場所で本を読むべきです instead of using ものだ.
A following sentence might be easy.
e.g.
学生は勉強する(べき)ものだ。
Students should study.

I hear you used to throw rocks at cars.
君は車に岩石を投げたものだそうです。
Would I use ものだそうだ to express "I hear you used to..." or is there another way to say this?

a_iwai wrote:
君は車に岩石を投げたものだそうです。
If it is used to express a recollection, this sentence is right, I think.

I'm afraid I don't think it's right.
[color=gray](君は)車に岩をよく投げ(つけ)ていたそうです 。[/color]makes sense to me as "I hear you used to throw rocks at cars." No need to put ものだ.
Even if the sentence was (君は)車に岩をよく投げ(つけ)ていたそうです, it makes sense only when a listener suffers a loss of memory. Then a speaker explain about listener's actions which was proved by hearsay. Ending ね is very important in this kind of sentence.

Generally, ものだ as a recollection is used when a speaker mentions her/his own memories.
e.g.
高校生のころは、よく山に登ったものだ。
When I was a high school students, I used to climb mountains.(?)
私たち家族は、よくケンカをしたものだ。
My family used to quarrel.

--
I'd like to add ものだ usage as 5) with Iwai-san's post.
To explain a reason/background of a specific situation which has already happened.

You can use ものだそうです in this usage.
e.g.
異常気象は、地球温暖化によるものだそうです
They say/I've heard the abnormal weather is caused by global heating. (?)
Of course you can say more simple usage of もの as a object/material
e.g.
この宝石はクレオパトラが使っていたものだそうです。
They say/I've heard this jewel was used by Cleopatra.
Last edited by coco on Wed 07.04.2007 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ものだ examples.

Postby Teh_Freak » Wed 07.04.2007 3:08 pm

Wow, thank you both for the detailed explanations!

In reference to "あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読むものです。", I meant "should" as a suggestion. Would ほうがいい be used in this case? Here's how I'm seeing things right now:

You should read a few magazines. (suggestion)
あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読んだほうがいいです。

You should read a few magazines. (command)
あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読むべきです。
あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読むものです。 (not used often)

coco wrote:
(君は)車に岩をよく投げ(つけ)ていたそうですね 。makes sense to me as "I hear you used to throw rocks at cars." No need to put ものだ.
Would something like the following work?

I hear you used to work in China.
中国で働いていたそうですね。

a_iwai wrote:
2) To emphasize a meaning of a hope / wish.
So my first example was correct? Also, I've read that shortening ものだ to もんだ makes the sentence sound more feminine; is this true, or is the もんだ just like んです for のです?

4) To express a surprise: evaluation.

Something like this?

(A parent scolding a child after finding out the child robbed a store)
How could you do such a thing!?
そんなことをしたものだ!

I'd like to add ものだ usage as 5) with Iwai-san's post.
To explain a reason/background of a specific situation which has already happened.
Here are a few examples of my own, just so I understand this:

They say she ate the ears of rabbits.
彼女は兎の耳を食べたものだそうです。

I heard that Jim used this product.
ジムはこの製品を使ったものだそうです。
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RE: ものだ examples.

Postby coco » Wed 07.04.2007 7:35 pm

Teh_Freak wrote:
In reference to "あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読むものです。", I meant "should" as a suggestion. Would ほうがいい be used in this case? Here's how I'm seeing things right now:

You should read a few magazines. (suggestion)
あなたは幾つかの雑誌を読んだほうがいいです。


Edit: Regarding 〜したほうがいい,(this thread may help.

coco wrote:
(君は)車に岩をよく投げ(つけ)ていたそうですね 。makes sense to me as "I hear you used to throw rocks at cars." No need to put ものだ.
Would something like the following work?
I hear you used to work in China.
中国で働いていたそうですね。

Very good.

I'd like to add ものだ usage as 5) with Iwai-san's post.
To explain a reason/background of a specific situation which has already happened.
Here are a few examples of my own, just so I understand this:
They say she ate the ears of rabbits.
彼女は兎の耳を食べたものだそうです。

I heard that Jim used this product.
ジムはこの製品を使ったものだそうです。


Both of your Japanese sentences have sounds of recollection. 3) usage of Iwai-san's post. If so, as Iwai-san's explained, it implies an action had repeated very often. And even if this supposition is correct, following sentences would be more natural to me.

彼女はよくウサギの耳を食べていたそうです。
ジムはよくこの製品を使っていたそうです。
( ている as habitual actions)

I think your sentence would be
彼女はウサギの耳を食べたそうです。/彼女はウサギの耳を食べたと聞きました。
ジムはこの製品を使ったそうです。/ジムはこの製品を使ったと聞きました。
You don't need to put ものだ in both sentences.

An example sentence of 5) usage would be

エタノール燃料に対する過大な期待は農作物の価格上昇を招くとして以前から専門家に懸念されていたものだ

ものだ in this sentence explains a background of ethanol fuel/a price increase of farm crops(it depends on other context).
You can see this kind of usage in Newspapers or analysis reports.

My English sentence would be incorrect, but I think something like
Some specialists have worried about a overexpectation for the ethanol fuel because it would cause a price increase of farm crops. (?)

You can add そうです with this usage as hearsay.

A simple usage of ものだそうだ would be
この本は山田さんのものだそうです。
I heard this book belongs to Yamada.

Could you quote ものだそうだ usage you've seen as " I hear someone used to〜" please ?
Last edited by coco on Thu 07.05.2007 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: ものだ examples.

Postby a_iwai » Thu 07.05.2007 2:01 am

I'd like to see the movie alone.

一人で映画を見たいもんだ。

I think it is ok, but I feel from the sentence that it is difficult to him / her to see the movie alone.If it simply means that you like to see the movie alone, you can use: "映画は一人で見たいものです。"

other example for emphasizing a meaning a hope / wish is

はやく孫の顔をみたいものだ
I wish to look at a face of my grandchild early.

I think "もんだ" might be the colloquialism of "ものだ". However it might be existing, I didn't find out the case which felt to me more feminine by using "もんだ".

(A parent scolding a child after finding out the child robbed a store)
How could you do such a thing!?
そんなことをしたものだ!


I think it could be used at the case that things had been already completed, and it is including some objective nuance.

If the trouble had happened in your childhood, I think you can use :
思い返してみれば、よくそんなことをしたものだと思います。
(When I remember about this, I think "How could I do such a thing".)

たいしたものだ / たいしたもんだ
How great

ひどいものだ / ひどいもんだ
How terrible

These are sometimes used in Japanese manga.
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RE: ものだ examples.

Postby Teh_Freak » Fri 07.06.2007 12:17 pm

Again, thank you both for the replys, it is much appreciated.
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