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Americanization

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RE: Americanization

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 01.03.2008 12:03 pm

Shirasagi. I also wonder is KFC Japanized rather than Japan being Americanized by the influx of KFC? I ask this because no where in the US do you go to a KFC to get a Christmas Chicken.

and to answer your question about Taco Bell, ask any of my Mexican and South American friends if that is influenced by their culture and they will fall on the ground from laughter. While tacos are a mainstay in both cultures, what is in them is hardly Mexican or South American.

So, while the US is certainly becoming Central and South Americanized, the US is also influencing what is happening while it is becoming more Central and South Americanized. ( is that confusing enough?)
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RE: Americanization

Postby katafei » Thu 01.03.2008 1:26 pm

guitarplayer7694 wrote:
chikara wrote:
Gundaetiapo wrote:
........ If you could impart one Australian feature to the US, what would it be?

English ;)

what do you mean?


It's just a joke.
It made me laugh ^_^

As an outsider to both countries and not having visited Japan yet, I still agree with some former posters that America probably has had more influence on Japan then the other way around. But then again, that influence is more or less world wide, I guess.....

It's in clothing, music, language,etc.
I sometimes feel that one third of the present day words are 'Japanised' English (ie American), and this feeling leads to the horror scenario of katakana only ;)
Hopefully, I'll be proven wrong.
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RE: Americanization

Postby Shirasagi » Thu 01.03.2008 2:29 pm

Shirasagi. I also wonder is KFC Japanized rather than Japan being Americanized by the influx of KFC? I ask this because no where in the US do you go to a KFC to get a Christmas Chicken.


Exactly my point. People look at the surface of something and say, "XX-zation!" but culture is something much more basic and foundational that defies influence by things as ephemeral as tangible cultural artifacts. Rather, the cultural artifact finds itself changed by the new cultural environment.

and to answer your question about Taco Bell, ask any of my Mexican and South American friends if that is influenced by their culture and they will fall on the ground from laughter. While tacos are a mainstay in both cultures, what is in them is hardly Mexican or South American.


Yes, again, exactly my point.
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RE: Americanization

Postby keatonatron » Thu 01.03.2008 2:43 pm

katafei wrote:
I sometimes feel that one third of the present day words are 'Japanised' English (ie American), and this feeling leads to the horror scenario of katakana only


There are a lot of foreign words that don't come from English.
Even still, English doesn't equal American. During the mid- to late-19th century, the Japanese strived to become more worldly. Of all the countries that Japan has contact with, the only language that is readily spoken amongst all of them is English. In an attempt to become more international and able to compete on the world market, it's only logical that they would strive to incorporate more English into their society, regardless of it being the main language of America.

What I'm trying to say is, a lot of countries have had a large influence, not just America. ;)
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RE: ¬¬

Postby Adriano » Thu 01.03.2008 2:55 pm

ALL THE WORLD IS AMERICANIZED

You´re american, are the only people that don´t know it. I´ve traveled to Italian too, and like here, Brazil, we drink coca-cola in Burger King while watching CNN, wearing Nike and listening Linkin Park ¬¬
Samba? Copacabana? Forget it :P
I think the only country that isn´t so americanized is China, acording with my brother who lives there
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RE: Americanization

Postby keatonatron » Thu 01.03.2008 4:20 pm

Adriano wrote:
I think the only country that isn´t so americanized is China, acording with my brother who lives there


Are you kidding?? They speak English a lot better than the Japanese do (and it's often American English), and they drive on the right side of the road!
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RE: Americanization

Postby LeMichaels » Thu 01.03.2008 4:23 pm

"Westernization is a process whereby non-western societies come under the influence of "Western culture" in such matters as industry, technology, law, politics, economics, lifestyle, diet, language, alphabet, religion or values."

"Americanization is the term used for the influence the United States of America has on the culture of other countries, resulting in such phenomena as the substitution of a given culture with American culture."

Has Japan been Americanized? That remains a point of view. I do not believe that the Japanese culture has been substituted for American culture, merely influenced. Japan has been more Westernized than Americanized. Japan has adopted many things from politics and economics to religion and technology. Everyone seems to want to say that cultural evolution is automatically a culturalization by another culture. Your opinions are your own and I respect them, but remember that one country learning from another is not necessarily bad. Sometimes it's how we grow and advance.

P.S. - Yes, I do believe that there are many, many negative aspects of America and American culture, but I will argue whether or not Japan has adopted these negative aspects.
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RE: Americanization

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 01.03.2008 4:59 pm

Lemichaels, I don't think anyone is saying that becoming Americanized is a bad thing..


I just wonder why our OP tends to start these subjects and then fades into lurker mode until he brings up the next best controvercial subject... comeone OP, take part in the conversation, otherwise, I really have to wonder if you care that much about your own questions, save to just toss them around like old socks into the laundry hamper.
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RE: Americanization

Postby chikara » Thu 01.03.2008 6:37 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:
He means we speak American and not English. Of course, going on that same thought, Aussies, speak Australian rather than English as well. and the Brits would speak British as well. ....

Actually the Brits (Britain includes England, Scotland, and Wales) include the English who surprisingly speak English. To say that the English don't speak English is the same as saying that the French don't speak French.

I agree though that there are certainly different dialects spoken but if you look at the written "English" of a Brit, an Aussie and even a Kiwi they will be pretty much the same.

katafei wrote:
It's just a joke.
It made me laugh ^_^

.....

I'm glad someone understands the meaning of ;)

two_heads_talking wrote:
.... I don't think anyone is saying that becoming Americanized is a bad thing ...

When I say I lament the Americanisation of my own country I am not being critical of Americanisation (with an ess not a zed :)) in general but the way in which some of these Americanisms are being adopted. Upper middle class WASP kids here getting around dressing and speaking like underprivileged African-American kids is one example.

We had a case here recently where a young mother called 911 to get assistance for her critically injured child and it wouldn't even ring. That is because the emergency number in this country is 000.
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RE: Americanization

Postby Hatori » Thu 01.03.2008 8:34 pm

Hey, thanks for the links and info about colonization! I knew it was sometime in the 1800s, but that's the time in my history book last year when I didn't pay attention.

chikara wrote:
Gundaetiapo wrote:
........ If you could impart one Australian feature to the US, what would it be?

English ;)

Once I tricked my friend that the Australians spoke Australianese. It was hilarious. And it was recent too!
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RE: Americanization

Postby chikara » Thu 01.03.2008 8:46 pm

Hatori wrote:
Once I tricked my friend that the Australians spoke Australianese. ....

We actually speak Strine :D
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RE: Americanization

Postby LeMichaels » Thu 01.03.2008 9:32 pm

chikara wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:
.... I don't think anyone is saying that becoming Americanized is a bad thing ...

When I say I lament the Americanisation of my own country I am not being critical of Americanisation (with an ess not a zed :)) in general but the way in which some of these Americanisms are being adopted. Upper middle class WASP kids here getting around dressing and speaking like underprivileged African-American kids is one example.


First off, AmericaniSation and AmericaniZation are two seperate spellings for the same definition, BOTH of which are correct (not trying to be rude, just clarifying).

Secondly, I agree with both two_heads_talking and chikara. Americanization is not necessarily a bad thing. However, when certain aspects of American culture are absorbed (poor etiquette and manerisms, poor language skills, and disrespect towards others) by another culture, this can be a very bad thing. I sometimes believe that it's this adoption by other cultures that makes Americanization have such a negative connotation to it.
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RE: Americanization

Postby chikara » Fri 01.04.2008 12:09 am

LeMichaels wrote:
First off, AmericaniSation and AmericaniZation are two seperate spellings for the same definition, BOTH of which are correct (not trying to be rude, just clarifying).......

I was making a point, in response to THT's post, about the difference between "English" and "American".

I'll have to start using [joke] .... [/joke] and [tic] ..... [/tic] tags as so many people seem to miss the meaning of emoticons :)

Actually, in English English, when I was at school at least, the use of zed in place of ess was not accepted as correct spelling. The use of zed in place of ess is one of the Americanisms sneaking into this country but many educational institutions, including the university were my wife did her English literature degree, are resisting this change. The Macquarie Dictionary (a dictionary of Australian English) lists the ~ize as an alternative spelling under the entry for the "correct" spelling.

BTW, "zed" is the "English" way of saying "zee" ;)
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RE: Americanization

Postby katafei » Fri 01.04.2008 3:43 am

chikara wrote:
I'll have to start using [joke] .... [/joke] and [tic] ..... [/tic] tags as so many people seem to miss the meaning of emoticons :)

Actually, in English English, when I.....

I thought that would come back to haunt you ^_^


Now, can we start a discussion about the difference between English and British??
I think you're supposed to say 'British English'
(and that would not include Down Under :D)
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RE: Americanization

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 01.04.2008 10:56 am

I mentioned Britain English as British to not include the Australian English as from what I can tell they were distinct and seperate.. Chikara are you of the impression that they are nearly identical? (of course accent and dialect aside)

And I threw the "z" in Americanization to show just what youwere talking about chikara, that proper English and American English can be different but not so dissimilar as to be unreckognizable.

I think the "STrine" you speak of chikara is similar (vaguely anways) to Cockney rhyming slang..
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