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Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration and E

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Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration and E

Postby Grit » Wed 06.28.2006 8:22 pm

I just saw some statistics which placed Brazilians as the third largest minority group in Japan, and Peruvians as the 5th (U.S followed at 6th). I believe I once heard something about how a surplus of an agrarian workforce led to a large increase of emigration, but that's it.

Basically, I am curious (a.) why Brazil and Peru in particular, (b.) reasons for emigration, and (c.) reasons for large Brazilian and Peruvian populations within Japan.

Thanks for any future information in this area.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby coco » Wed 06.28.2006 11:32 pm

Have you read this website?
http://www.janm.org/projects/inrp/english/resourcs.htm
Japanese, English, Spanish, Portuguese are available.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 06.29.2006 10:09 am

Grit wrote:
I just saw some statistics which placed Brazilians as the third largest minority group in Japan, and Peruvians as the 5th (U.S followed at 6th). I believe I once heard something about how a surplus of an agrarian workforce led to a large increase of emigration, but that's it.

Basically, I am curious (a.) why Brazil and Peru in particular, (b.) reasons for emigration, and (c.) reasons for large Brazilian and Peruvian populations within Japan.

Thanks for any future information in this area.


IIRC (if i remember correctly) the president of Brazil is Japanese.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby Oyaji » Thu 06.29.2006 10:35 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
IIRC (if i remember correctly) the president of Brazil is Japanese.


I believe you are thinking of Alberto Fujimori, the former president of Peru, who fled to Japan after being forced from office for corruption, putting the Japanese government in a sticky situation. He has since returned to South America where he is awaiting trial.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 06.29.2006 12:14 pm

Oyaji wrote:
two_heads_talking wrote:
IIRC (if i remember correctly) the president of Brazil is Japanese.


I believe you are thinking of Alberto Fujimori, the former president of Peru, who fled to Japan after being forced from office for corruption, putting the Japanese government in a sticky situation. He has since returned to South America where he is awaiting trial.


you are right, it was Peru.. too much soccer on the brain, no wonder i put Brazil.. doh!
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby Grit » Fri 06.30.2006 12:19 am

coco wrote:
Have you read this website?
http://www.janm.org/projects/inrp/english/resourcs.htm
Japanese, English, Spanish, Portuguese are available.


Thanks for the site! Great place to answer my questions. I have read through quite a bit of it already, but I still haven't really delved into the timeline portion yet. Still, I have a couple more questions relating to this subject right now, basically about some words/terminology.

Tell me if I am off here please:

dekasegi - These are people who returned back to Japan from South American countries in the 80s? Or is the timespan here more broad?

issei - Supposedly people who emigrated from Japan, but is there some cutoff here, meaning must it be after a certain time period?

nisei - Not too sure, is it a child of two issei? Or does only one parent have to be an issei?

sansei - Same as before san (3) generation, but do both parents have to be nisei, or can one parent be issei or zerosei?

kibei - Most confused here. Something about being educated in japan but still being an emigre. Is this before or after emigration?

Ok, now it seems that most Brazilian and Peruvian (I know the site covers far more...) immigrants to Japan are mostly, probably entirely almost, of Japanese ethnicity, so I wonder, does this mean that almost zero of the B and P population in Japan are ethnically related to those of native Brazilian/peruvian and/or African descent? Because this is more what I pictured when I saw that set of statistics.

Thanks for all replies!
I'll check out that timeline next.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby tkbits » Fri 06.30.2006 1:01 am

One example of kibei.

Person is born in the US.
Person's family returns to Japan.
Person receives public education in Japan.
Person returns, as an adult, to live in the US.
Last edited by tkbits on Fri 06.30.2006 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby TrilinguisT » Fri 06.30.2006 3:27 am

wow .. how do you count every single japanese in the world?
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 06.30.2006 9:14 am

TrilinguisT wrote:
wow .. how do you count every single japanese in the world?



ichi, ni, san, yon, go, roku.. etc. etc.. until you count them all:D;)
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby keatonatron » Fri 06.30.2006 11:23 am

TrilinguisT wrote:
wow .. how do you count every single japanese in the world?


Probably each country asks about nationality when they do the census. That information is then collected by research companies to find out how many Japanese are living in what countries.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 06.30.2006 11:26 am

of course you have to figure that not everyone is counted in teh census.. so there is no true way of knowing the exact amount but a way of know that probable or most likely amount with a variable of +or- percentage difference.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby Budomaru » Fri 06.30.2006 11:39 am

statistics is an accurate science when the rules are followed - and you usually dont need a perfectly exact number in order to make a conclusion :P

as far as this topic is concerned, i think the census is adequate.
You know you've been hanging around a forum too long when people start quoting you and agreeing :P
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 06.30.2006 4:08 pm

statistics unfortunately can be tuned to say whatever the hell the person tuning them wants to say.. but meh. whatever..
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby coco » Fri 06.30.2006 8:03 pm

Dekasegi
出稼ぎ 【でかせぎ】 (n,vs) working away from home; (P ); EP
( From JDIC )we use this word even in domestic case.
There is no limitation with( of?) time, neither history.
If you can use ALC 英辞郎, put the word 出稼ぎ so that you can get it more clear.

…ということろで根気が尽きました。 (はやすぎっ ^^;
どなたから親切な方がいたら以下の訳をお願いいたします。

I can not explain about Issei - sansei in English.
http://www.discovernikkei.org/en/resources/glossary/
It might be help.
I hope someone helps us kindly.

一世に関しては、本人が自ら「一世」を名乗ることは少ないと思われます。
また、一世は周囲からは「日本人」みられており、本人も「一世」という意識は
持っていないはずです。
一世という呼称は、二世、三世以降の時代から振り返って
「祖父は日系一世でした」のような形で使われるのが
ほとんどであろうと思います。

二世、三世(+ それ以降)に関しては、通常の生活で語られる限り
厳密な定義はないものと思われます。
(というのも、日系の方と話していると、
私が考えている「二世、三世」の使い方と違うと思うことが多々あったからです。
このことから、各国の日系社会ごとに「世」の扱いが異なる可柏ォが高い--
と思ったことがありましたので)

法律上の解釈については入国管理に関する次の解説が参考になります。

Q1 日系人のとれるビザを教えて下さい。
 日系人に与えられる在留資格については、当該日系人が二世(父または母が日本国籍を有している)であるか三世(祖父または祖母が日本国籍を有している)であるかによって異なります。

このことから、日本国法務省の解釈は
1)一世は日本国籍を有している
2)二世は 父または 母が一世の子供である
3)三世は 父または母が二世である
4)四世は…

となります。

Kibei??
Although I guess it may be 帰米, could you please show us the entire sentence?
what's context the word Kibei is used in?
Last edited by coco on Fri 06.30.2006 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Question about Brazilian/Peruvian-Japanese Immigration a

Postby Grit » Fri 06.30.2006 8:22 pm

Ok, so dekasegi is far more broad, and refers just to those working away from 'home'. So technically, regardless of one's nationality, they can be called a dekasegi?

Going by that glossary it seems nisei and sansei must be born from two respective (n-1)sei parents. Probably isn't so strictly used in reality, but going by the glossary..

Alright, here is where kibei was used on the site:

"For example, the often difficult pre-World War II kibei experience of the Japanese Americans is not comparable to that of Latin American Nikkei who studied in Japan and returned to their Latin American communities, generally with increased stature."

Looks like bits was right on.

Same question from before though: the vast majority of Brazilian and Peruvian immigrants in Japan aren't ethnically related to indigineous brazilian/peruvians or africans?

I still need to check out that timeline.
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