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I am thinking of moving to Japan.

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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby battousai » Fri 08.18.2006 11:25 am

Then the man says "well, you can pay me in anime!" and the manager says "you're hired!"


I have a feeling we have a few people around here who have thought about this scenario when going to Japan.. ;)
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby chiisu321 » Fri 08.18.2006 11:32 am

Which college you chose to go to would have to depend on what you want the outcome to be. Figure out what you want to do and then determine where you have a better chance of doing it America or Japan. I'm really in no position to say anymore >_<;
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Shinjitsu » Fri 08.18.2006 11:09 pm

Maybe you can work as a testing subject, you are not going to get bored when thinking if you will survive to the test. i dont think there are a lot of poeple who want to this.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby matnapp » Fri 08.18.2006 11:40 pm

Test subject?
Image
I love Antic Cafe!!

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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby AJBryant » Sat 08.19.2006 12:00 am

The more I think about it the more is sounds fun to be a translator!


No, it's not. Trust me.


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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Rsquared333 » Sat 08.19.2006 12:50 am

AJBryant wrote:
The more I think about it the more is sounds fun to be a translator!


No, it's not. Trust me.


Tony


Never done it but I am with Tony on this one. I sounds extremely fustrating, just think of how hard it is to get though to people that speak the same language.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Mike Cash » Sun 08.20.2006 5:29 am

Ongakuka wrote:

I just wished to express my surprise that someone here would find translating a boring job. If you find translating boring, how can you cope with learning Japanese?


Easy enough to explain. Not everybody uses the translation method for learning. It not only isn't necessary to translate stuff in order to learn Japanese, many would say it is advisable to not translate. Bad, bad habit it get into, unless one is specifically training for being a translator.

Learning a language for use as a second language and being a translator are two very different beasts.

But I have to warn you, no matter which path you take, if you go to Japan you must be prepared to fall back on translating if everything doesn't go according to plan.


That's absurd on several levels. Could you please tell us on what that opinion is based? Thank you.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Infidel » Sun 08.20.2006 6:00 am

I've read several papers and books by professional translators. Even though they were completely different people working in different decades they both gave strikingly similar examples of what their life was like.

Example 1. Translator was having trouble with a word, he couldn't find it in any dictionary or reference, so he goes to the boss and points out the word and explains the problem. The boss questioned his competence and responded, "You should know it, that is a foreign word." There were 3 different people that give this example.

Example 2. Boss thinks he's paying his translator too much so he comes up with the bright idea to not pay for articles and conjunctions because they aren't really necessary. One translator remarked that maybe when he traslates to Japanese he should omit the particles as they were equally unnecessary. He was fired. Two translators gave an example like this.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Ongakuka » Sun 08.20.2006 7:09 am

Easy enough to explain. Not everybody uses the translation method for learning. It not only isn't necessary to translate stuff in order to learn Japanese, many would say it is advisable to not translate. Bad, bad habit it get into, unless one is specifically training for being a translator.


Being able to comprehend Japanese involves translating. Until you reach the stage where you can instinctivley understand everything, you will be translating almost everything you hear.

Learning a language for use as a second language and being a translator are two very different beasts.


Of course they are. But they both involve the ability to translate.

That's absurd on several levels. Could you please tell us on what that opinion is based? Thank you.


How about you tell me on exactly which levels it is absurd? Or even better, give a detailed scenario in which a foreigner moves to Japan attempting to aquire a job far more suited to Japanese people, and has no need of their ability to use both Japanese and English?
Last edited by Ongakuka on Sun 08.20.2006 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby hungryhotei » Sun 08.20.2006 7:42 am

Ongakuka wrote:
Being able to comprehend Japanese involves translating.


But that's just not true.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Ongakuka » Sun 08.20.2006 8:06 am

But that's just not true.


A: Hey, do you speak Japanese?

B: Yes that's right.

A: Great! Then you can help me translate this sentence.

B: Uh... no, you see, I can read, write, speak, and understand Japanese and English fluently, but I can't translate anything.

A: ???
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby paul_b » Sun 08.20.2006 8:51 am

Ongakuka wrote:
A: Hey, do you speak Japanese?

B: Yes that's right.

A: Great! Then you can help me translate this sentence.

B: Uh... no, you see, I can read, write, speak, and understand Japanese and English fluently, but I can't translate anything.

A: ???

Translating is different to speaking (or writing) a language. Just because you know what something means in Japanese doesn't mean that you can translate it into English (or vice versa).

Moreover, while there is some overlap, effort to improve translation skills and effort to improve communication skills are very different. To an extent you can measure your skill in Japanese by how much you _don't_ think about what it means in English.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Ezrach » Sun 08.20.2006 9:02 am

Ongakuka wrote:
But that's just not true.


A: Hey, do you speak Japanese?

B: Yes that's right.

A: Great! Then you can help me translate this sentence.

B: Uh... no, you see, I can read, write, speak, and understand Japanese and English fluently, but I can't translate anything.

A: ???


On a basic level, sure - you can translate. But having studied Japanese for so many years and having concepts explained about Japanese in Japanese, there are some phrases and words that I can completely understand in Japanese but can't convey the exact same feeling in English.

So, yes, "今日は日曜日です。" can be easily translated immediately as, "Today is Sunday." But something along the lines of, "回転寿しに行って、ホタテの貝柱と大トロうまく食べた。" doesn't just naturally start popping up in English in your head. I mean, I know what 回転寿し is. I love it. But do you need to know that it is "a sushi restaurant with revolving conveyor belts containing plates of food" in English? And do you instinctively know that ホタテの貝柱 are the adductor muscles of a scallop? (I didn't until about 3 seconds ago when I looked it up in my dictionary, despite having ordered and eaten it dozens of times) And everytime you eat some 大トロ, do you think to yourself, "Mmm, delicious fat-underbelly of tuna!" or even simply, "Mmm, quality tuna!"? I don't. I just think, "大トロうまい!"

No one is saying that you don't have the ability to translate a sentence, given time. They're just saying that when you get to a high enough level, you don't waste time and mental energy translating every sentence you hear from Japanese to English during the course of a normal conversation - you think in Japanese, or you think in English, but usually not both at the same time.
Last edited by Ezrach on Sun 08.20.2006 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby keatonatron » Sun 08.20.2006 9:30 am

It also depends on what your definition of translation is (hmm, sounds like something I've heard from multiple government officials....)

Is something as simple as 青 = "blue" considered a translation? If so, then any student who has mastered the basics can translate SOMETHING.

With more complicated stuff, are both of the following correct translations of "風邪を引いちゃって、鼻水が出た。"?

A: I caught a cold and my nose is running.
B: I inadvertantly pulled a wind and the nose water came out.

Some people would say answer A is a translation and answer B isn't, because it doesn't take into account cultural idioms and the like. Again, any student who has mastered the basics can come up with answer B, but it takes a bit more knowledge and talent to be able to come up with an A grade answer.

I guess translator school will help you move from answer B to answer A.
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RE: I am thinking of moving to Japan.

Postby Infidel » Sun 08.20.2006 9:37 am

Translation is an additional step in the line of understanding. It's fine to translate when it's your job or out of necessity, but othewise it's better to understand directly.

One reason it seems people are confused is because people are assuming that translations is something that only happens with foreign languages.

There is such thing as English-English translations too. They happen every day. Perhaps you've even seen it happen, "Could you explain that in lay man's terms?" Does this sound like a familiar phrase?

The problem with attempting to translate instead of seeking to directly understand is enforcing a delay in the process of understanding. Basically, you have to stop everything to figure out what someone would have said in your native language, meanwhile, the person you are listening to is still talking. This breaks up a conversation into a bunch of bits and pieces and makes what is understood even harder to understand.

I have this problem in college lecture classes. The teacher will say something in a way that inspires me to a newfound understanding, I began to translate her words into images and attempt apply these new concepts to my existing knowledge, meanwhile she is still talking and I missed whatever she's saying.

Reading is also an act of translation. You translate written symbols into words. Early on teachers encourage students to translate the symbols into words by reading aloud so they can catch mistaks, but eventually the students are discouraged from reading aloud and to just understand the words directly. Studies have shown that reading aloud is a hinderence to advanced reading because people who read aloud have a lower comprehension rate than those who do not.
Last edited by Infidel on Sun 08.20.2006 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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