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Gender

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RE: Gender

Postby suhui » Fri 03.09.2007 10:52 pm

and dirty looks from Japanese women
so they are bias against foreign women? How about in the work aspect? If there's a foreign women of a higher post than them, will they bear prejudices against her?
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RE: Gender

Postby Infidel » Fri 03.09.2007 11:36 pm

See Keatonatron's post. They are Jealous not biased. Foreign all over the world is considered exotic and often better. The Japanese women don't like having to compete with an "exotic" foreign woman. That's all.
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RE: Gender

Postby Mike Cash » Fri 03.09.2007 11:57 pm

At Least I Can Fill a Bra wrote:
Japan is not the best place for a single Western woman. I have lived here for 3 years and will be getting out ASAP.


Don't let the door hit you in the tits on the way out.
Never underestimate my capacity for pettiness.
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RE: Gender

Postby Seapony » Sat 03.10.2007 2:39 am

Oh fer heaven's sake...

Must it always come to generalisations?

I mean really. ALICFAB (interesting moniker, btw) the pettiness you described can be found ANYWHERE. Here in the U.S. for example they have "cliquey, desperate" housewives who stay at home and raise the kids while the men go work. Career women gossip as they curl their hair and don makeup in public powder rooms at the office or in carpools before the start of the work day. Men stalk and oogle at women from afar, fearful to approach them much less speak to them because they're afraid of being turned down. Heck, working women here still earn about a quarter less on the dollar than men do so you can count equality out. And yes, perverts here also take snapshots up schoolgirl's rolled up uniform skirts on the subway (although perhaps not as rampantly as over there, but I digress).

So where is this huge cultural divide I ask? Things really don't appear all that different from my perspective. More homogeneous, perhaps, but not completely as alien from the biasness of one's own country as one would like to believe.

So as a foreign woman visiting Japan will I be met with more prejudices than a foreign man visiting Japan? More than likely, but that won't stop me from going and trying to enjoy myself anyway. Enough women have gone and reported enough overall pleasant experiences to tell me that such a thing is possible. And besides, although there will probably be some instances of discrimination that will be outside of my control to avoid, I'm also not going to allow myself to be disrespected either. If you know how to verbally, tactfully and intelligently defend yourself, then you should be fine. I imagine in the end you'll be be allowed more social concessions than the average native Japanese by virtue of being a foreigner anyway...like I said, just choose your battles wisely.

Whenever these "gender" questions come up, I find that the best thread questions to ask, rather than point out the differences between how males and females are treated in society, are "survival" questions...what to say/do in certain situations, where to go, where not to go, what's expected of a foreigner, where are the foreigner's district or not allowed, tips for a female foreigner travelling alone, that sort of thing. Be more specific rather than general.

Finally, it seems ALICFAB that you had a less than stellar experience in Japan, I'm genuinely sorry if you did. But one has to wonder if it's solely because of the people around you or if other introspective factors played a role in it as well.

:)
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RE: Gender

Postby terence_hideyoshi » Sat 03.10.2007 6:50 am

Scavengist wrote:
I kind of feel like America is changing Japan to a western style.. :( Is it because of foreigners, or is it natural?


Well, no one will actually be influenced by anyone else unless one's is willing to change and accept to change.
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RE: Gender

Postby Dehitay » Mon 03.12.2007 11:46 am

what does ALICFAB mean?
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RE: Gender

Postby Xaith » Mon 03.12.2007 11:59 am

At Least I Can Fill a Bra
Arrrr?
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RE: Gender

Postby CajunCoder » Mon 03.12.2007 12:48 pm

Never having lived in Japan, I am not the most knowledgeable or experienced on such issues, however, I don't think Japan is as sexist as everyone wants to believe. Perhaps this view is more rooted in our differences in culture?

I'd like to bring up two things, though. I am not presenting these as any sort of answers or arguments, but rather observations.

In America, "house wife" has practically become a discriminating term, and people who are given this title are automatically considered to be "slaves" under the control of their husbands, and being deprived of their own lives. Yes, such a description can accurately describe some, but not nearly as many as it does not. There are many out there who want to stay home and raise their children. When did this become a shameful and pitiful thing? Of course, I am not saying that only women should do this, or that women should only do this, but I raise the question why people disrespect women who do.

I undoubtedly come from an unusual family. However, my mother wanted to stay home, raise and teach me by homeschooling. I am very grateful for this; she encouraged my ambitions and instilled qualities in me which I am sure I would not have had otherwise. Had I grown up with both parents working, and only attended public school, I'm sure that I would be very different, and most definitely not have the ambitions and hunger for knowledge that I do now.

Now, am I saying that all women should do this, or that only women can do this? Of course not! I just wanted to point out what everyone seems to assume, and what they take for granted.

My second observation is this: does this have to do more with cultural differences than discrimination? Do more Japanese women who are housewives not be so of their own will? I think this to be the case in most scenarios, but I honestly don't know myself.

These are just my observations, on which I'd like to hear the insight and views of others.
Last edited by CajunCoder on Mon 03.12.2007 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Gender

Postby hiraikotsu » Tue 03.13.2007 5:36 am

I'd like to add to that.. I can't speak for Japanese women, but what I notice in Singapore (and for other developed countries I suppose), is that not only do women tend to work after marriage, their husbands seem to be happy that they do too. If the couple wants a better standard of living, it is accepted that the financial burden does not fall on the husbands only. In fact, I was talking to a friend the other day, and he mentioned that he would like his gf to work after marriage and help pay the bills... During our parents generation, it seems more acceptable (and expected) that wives stay home. It seems times have changed. :|
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RE: Gender

Postby suhui » Wed 03.14.2007 11:20 pm

I'd like to add to that.. I can't speak for Japanese women, but what I notice in Singapore (and for other developed countries I suppose), is that not only do women tend to work after marriage, their husbands seem to be happy that they do too. If the couple wants a better standard of living, it is accepted that the financial burden does not fall on the husbands only. In fact, I was talking to a friend the other day, and he mentioned that he would like his gf to work after marriage and help pay the bills... During our parents generation, it seems more acceptable (and expected) that wives stay home. It seems times have changed.


Yea..and in Singapore, majority of the kids (*I find so) are taken care of by their grandparents while their parents are working till they get into their secondary schools.
Most parents are working and it's hard to find sole breadwinners in families.
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RE: Gender

Postby yesterdaze » Thu 03.15.2007 2:00 am

heya! yes, i finally find s'poreans..! haha...
and yes, that's quite true, i myself was taken care of in pri by my grans... but that's not cos both parents were out... infact, my mum's a housewife, but dunno why they like that =P
maybe its cos my sch was at my grans' house on the other side of the island..?
no idea... haha...

wad exactly is considered gender equality then..? equal responsibility foisted on unequally built shoulders..? i mean, ya, all man are equal, but can te same be said of females as well..? :|

however, i think japan suffers from sexism not as much as it suffers from xenophobia...

ok, actually i was readg hiraikotsu's comment abt his fren and im wandering, if the fren thinks it ideal for his gf to contribute bcos he believes she has the shared responsibility to do so, or simply bcos its convenient for him as well..?

well, juz an observation, no offense meant ;)
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RE: Gender

Postby hiraikotsu » Thu 03.15.2007 5:15 am

I didn't ask him if it was out of convenience or responsibility. Perhaps some couples here think it is "necessary" (if you count private housing and car-ownership a necessity... :p) to maintain a dual income. If that's the case then I'm surprise that Japanese men still prefer their wives to stay home, since things there are more expensive. Maybe the social pressure for wives to stay home is really strong there.
I agree with Cajun's post that women shouldn't be disrespected for choosing to take care of the kids. My mom stayed home when I was a kid and I'm glad she did ;)
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RE: Gender

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 03.15.2007 9:58 am

yesterdaze wrote:
heya! yes, i finally find s'poreans..! haha...
and yes, that's quite true, i myself was taken care of in pri by my grans... but that's not cos both parents were out... infact, my mum's a housewife, but dunno why they like that =P
maybe its cos my sch was at my grans' house on the other side of the island..?
no idea... haha...

wad exactly is considered gender equality then..? equal responsibility foisted on unequally built shoulders..? i mean, ya, all man are equal, but can te same be said of females as well..? :|

however, i think japan suffers from sexism not as much as it suffers from xenophobia...

ok, actually i was readg hiraikotsu's comment abt his fren and im wandering, if the fren thinks it ideal for his gf to contribute bcos he believes she has the shared responsibility to do so, or simply bcos its convenient for him as well..?

well, juz an observation, no offense meant ;)


I think of myself as pretty up on 1337 or textgo, but i find myself scratching my head and wondering what in the name of Hades you actually just said.

sch? wtf is that?

while chatting or texting, this might be appropriate, but with the number of non-english speakers this is most innapropriate and very confusing. While, after the 5th read I finally figured out what I think you meant (and who knows, I am probably wrong anyways), no one should have to go through that.
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RE: Gender

Postby AJBryant » Thu 03.15.2007 3:06 pm

I find myself wishing we had a "probation - no posting allowed" feature like we do in the SomethingAwful forums...

People who write that way tend to get 24-hour to 1-week "no posting" probations the first time they do it. Repeated use gets 'em banned. ;)


Tony
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RE: Gender

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 03.15.2007 3:13 pm

Hmm.. Then I will endeavor to use caps inthe right places so I don't get "put in the corner with the pointy hat thingy".. :o
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