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Christianity in Japan

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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby Kashin » Thu 06.14.2007 3:57 pm

I guess my statement was misinterpreted. I wasn't saying there should be a double standard for tolerant and intolerant alike. It's simply accepting even the most rock-headed intolerant people while at the same time persuading them to change. Even if it is stupid, one has to turn the other cheek. Or should intolerance be mutual as well?
It really depends on your worldview. Do you say "I will tolerate and love you even if you hate me and aim to kill me" or would one say, "I don't need to tolerate you because you won't tolerate me." Which is more productive? Or which causes more conflict? The mutual intolerance or a one-sided tolerance of intolerance? Of course mutual tolerance is the ideal and we would all want it that way, but the world is simply not like that.
Personally, I think the whole idea of "tolerance" in it's common form is used by elitists to brag about their superiority as "great" or "righteous" people. Tolerance in it's secret form is where no one is bragging about how tolerant they are, but you love all people unconditionally. Even if it means letting the intolerant walk all over you. It's loving your enemies and "praying for those who persecute you" you may call it stupid martyrism, but it is selflessness and humility in their purest forms. In the long run it's not typically mindless submission, I wouldn't want anyone to get away with a horrible act for the sake of tolerance, but I would aim to show love and mercy to that person.
I would also say that intolerance has its place in certain situations just as tolerance plays its own role. One can be intolerant of something horrible going on in the world. Or intolerant of a cruel dictator or government and take action to stop it. Typically that works on the international level, but on the individual scale love is superior.

Again this is simply dependent on one's world view. If you have a different worldview you'll have a different opinion. We can all accept that in each other.

On a different note, one thing that we're really trying to do is motivate "faith in action" within the Christian community. Serving other people is what Christianity is, it's not just doing rituals for the sake of religion and never living differently outside of the church. It's a shame because selfless service to God and others used to be the trademark of a Christian. Now when people hear Christian they think of gay-bashing racists, "holier than thou" showoffs, crazy tv preachers, holy-rollers (thinking of some scenes in Borat ;)), or most sadly, hypocrites who expect a standard of others that they themselves don't live up to. Some Christians don't even realize that they are acting that way.
The revival of faith in action is why more and more countries and people all over the world are accepting Christianity. Instead of us just shoving religion down their throats and tearing down cultural traditions, we're actually providing for needs, and showing Christ's love to them. It's still a long way from ideal but at least there are some improvements.

Well to get myself back on topic, did any of you hear about the two Japanese misisonaries that were arrested for smuggling Bibles into China? I remember hearing about it a few months ago, but I can't remember where or what happened since then.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 06.14.2007 4:57 pm

One of my friends that I met in Japan, was a sailor in the Russia. We met in Sakata, where he, two or three of his shipmates, my missionary companion who happened to be japanese, had a converstaion consisting of 4 languages. My companion could speak russian and Polish, I spoke english and Japanese, the sailors spoke, Polish, russian and some English.

we talked about all sorts of things. they asked me about the books I was holding and how much they would cost. when I told them they could have them for free (they were copies of the Book of Mormon and the bible), they were excited, but one sailor said if he was caught with religious contraband, he would be courtmarshalled. He took the books anyways.

And oddly enough, another friend of mine, was serving a mission in Northern Europe, I think it was Finland, but ended up going into Russia to start up a mission there. he ran into this same man who talked about some American In a japanese port city that gave him some books to read. So, yeah, many countries are closed to certain religions and some are even strict enough to kill the missionaries.


As for tolerance, it's a tough road to travel where one is humble, meek and still able to be strong in spirit. Most people equate meek to weak, but let me ask you how many people in the money changing tents outside temples of Jerusalem though christ was weak as he threw them all out?
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby Kashin » Thu 06.14.2007 7:03 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:
As for tolerance, it's a tough road to travel where one is humble, meek and still able to be strong in spirit. Most people equate meek to weak, but let me ask you how many people in the money changing tents outside temples of Jerusalem though christ was weak as he threw them all out?


And remember Moses in all his powerful leadership, he was known as the most humble man of his time. There is an acute connection between strength and humility. A strong man without humility is a tyrant. A humble man without strength is a slave.
And nobody thought Jesus was weak when he drove out the moneychangers inside the Temple. But in less than a week the same Jesus who so powerfully, and with such authority threw out the money changers was hanging on a Roman cross at the hand of those same people. So what do we get from this? A strong man and a pitiful man in the same week? There are many more implications within all of it, but on this forum it would be perceived as "proselytizing" so I won't go into it. PM me if you want to talk about it.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby lame_duck » Thu 06.14.2007 8:04 pm

Kashin wrote:

lame_duck wrote:
Just make sure someone isn't using you.

Then again, selflessness is serving others even if they do use you or don't respond to your message.

*caught* Oh.... I'm not feeling tooooooo goooooood...

lol did you catch something? Oh, you must have caught a cough! :p



Well... If the person is only letting you around to help them and they arn't listening... Say you've been doing this for the last 3 days, would it be best to move on? Then again, I don't know the Bible from front to back, so you'd could probably point a verse out that supports helping instead of moving on. Then again, it could be seen as pandering to their laziness which wouldn't be good and I'm 99.9% sure there is a verse against that. Anyway, off that for now. Yea, I "caught" a bug even thought I felt like coughing. lol

Tell me about this YWAM group. What do they do? What kind of colleges do they run?

EDIT: Re-reading this post I sounded a bit harsh. I mean NOTHING by anything I write here, it's just how I talk. Sorry if anyone is offended by the tone.
Last edited by lame_duck on Fri 06.15.2007 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby Kashin » Fri 06.15.2007 2:32 am

Well, YWAM is Youth With A Mission. It's an inter-denominational Christian missionary organization. I haven't done a whole lot of research on it, but YWAM has Discipleship Training Schools (DTS) in many countries around the world. These DTS teach and prepare students for different kinds of ministry, evangelism, and missions.
YWAM at it's base is to get youth involved in missions work, but it's not age-restrictive. There are also programs for groups, churches, and families along with individuals.
My friend was in his DTS for like 6 months or so in Brisbane, AU doing different outreaches like playing in a band for Christian youth music days, street ministry, etc. Then for the next month he did an outreach in India. His friend from his DTS in Australia did his outreach to Japan.
So I guess they don't have specific colleges, but the organization has centers all across the globe.
I've heard good and bad things about YWAM (as far as the doctrines some have taught), I think the bad are isolated incidents, but discretion is always important.
I'm still considering doing one. I guess you can choose where you go, if it's one way to get to Japan, I'll consider it.

And as far as serving people who take advantage of you, I think it is very hard to find a good answer. I heard of missionaries in the jungle who would live with and help a tribe for months before seeing one convert. In a more local sense I would help a person so long as it didn't distract me from other people truly in need. It's hard for me to explain because I haven't had much experience. But true sometimes God calls you to move on if somebody is not responding. For instance I led worship for Chapel at my (Christian) High-School this past year since graduating. It was tough, I got very burdened but I knew I needed to stay there. I got no response from the students (that I saw) I pretty much saw my work as used and unappreciated, but I still believe that it was God's place for me there. And at the end of this year, I've been called to move on to different ministries.
I would say a Christian does selfless service for someone only until they start to become dependent on you. Or if they expect you to do something for them or more than they need. Then again I'm sure there have been well-ordained exceptions to that.
Returning a little to on topic, think of how some of the Daimyo used the Jesuit Missionaries as pawns in their politics. Even if the missionary realized it, he would usually still stay where he was. He still had a flock to look after, and he still had a mission. Ultimately a Christian's service is to God, and He directs when to stay and when to move on, despite the circumstances that men impose on us.
I could find some Bible verses about it, but I won't post them here. PM me if you want them!
Last edited by Kashin on Fri 06.15.2007 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby lemonaid » Fri 06.15.2007 7:08 am

This thread made me shake a bit from adrenaline rush. I'm really struggling with keeping my Internet Infidels persona in chess here.

But no worries, I won't spoil the fun :)
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 06.15.2007 9:07 am

lemonaid wrote:
This thread made me shake a bit from adrenaline rush. I'm really struggling with keeping my Internet Infidels persona in chess here.

But no worries, I won't spoil the fun :)


good, because I would be very upset if you did spoil it all .. the fact that you even thought about it is kind of upsetting.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby lemonaid » Fri 06.15.2007 10:36 am

two_heads_talking wrote:
lemonaid wrote:
This thread made me shake a bit from adrenaline rush. I'm really struggling with keeping my Internet Infidels persona in chess here.

But no worries, I won't spoil the fun :)


good, because I would be very upset if you did spoil it all .. the fact that you even thought about it is kind of upsetting.


I wasn't thinking about literally spoiling this thread. Atheism and vandalism are two different -isms, and I subscribe only to the former. I did however feel the urge to go into a sizzling hot debate about some of the claims made and points raised in this thread.

But I'm not on this forum to debate religion or missionary work. I'm here to practice my japanese and gosh dangit that's what I'm gonna do!
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 06.15.2007 10:47 am

sorry lemonaid, I was supposed to put smileys up so you could tell I was joking.. (my apologies)


and if you have had any experience with the topic of christianity in japan, feel free to wade in.
Last edited by two_heads_talking on Fri 06.15.2007 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby lemonaid » Fri 06.15.2007 11:01 am

Thank IPU that we're both civilized and reasonable people! This could've turned ugly... ;)

No problem, mate. I did see that hint of jokydokyness in your post but you never know. When I read your post I had a flashback from a movie or TV-show where a strange character exclaims "I'M VERY UPSET RIGHT NOW!" so it left the desired effect even without the smiley.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 06.15.2007 1:08 pm

whew.. crisis averted.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby clay » Fri 06.15.2007 1:12 pm

Ahh, the power of a smiley.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby Kashin » Fri 06.15.2007 3:09 pm

lemonaid, unless you're reading some of the posts from earlier pages, I don't see what you would be upset about. We're (I'm) not trying to debate religion with anyone. We're just discussing the state of Christianity in Japan and throughout the world. I've been very careful (recently) not to post any verses or theological claims that would cause immediate conflict with other members. Most of the discussion recently has dealt with issues within the Christian spectrum, and for an atheist or a skeptic, etc., you aren't affected. But really feel free to contribute to the discussion. I want to hear your opinions/questions/concerns! If we can keep the discussion civil, without trying to convert one another, the thread won't get spoiled. And anyone, feel free to PM me if you want to discuss anything more deeply. And my email is viewable if anyone wants to chat there.

...and a ;) to keep everyone happy! ^_^

(P.S. Mods/Admins, I think i've been doing pretty well but if you still think I need to tone down the religionese, just let me know. :D)
Last edited by Kashin on Fri 06.15.2007 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby john2 » Fri 06.15.2007 3:27 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
Kashin wrote:


And Malachi 3:6 doesn't come against anything I said. "I am the Lord, and I do not change..." God is constant. His attibutes and character do not change, but people change. Our relationship to Him can change, and the ways we can come to him changed in the New Covenant.


So there's God himself telling you that He doesn't change. The rules for our relation to Him got laid out by Him....and we take it upon ourselves to decide that we get to decide to change it. Pop-psych feel-good cafeteria-style Christianity.

I have often remarked to my wife about Christian missionaries in Japan having a relatively easy "sell" since they start out with Jesus and make God a minor character. Jesus is such a nice and lovely guy, generally speaking....who could take exception to him? They'd have a much harder row to hoe if they started out introducing God instead.

i find this verry funny,^^)

on the old subject
i culturally i think in japan, sort of cristians are less agresiv then in the west!, just my opinion

(PS:to those who know my email you can share it with other members.)
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RE: Christianity in Japan

Postby chaskarmukund » Sat 06.16.2007 2:39 am

I agree with Mr. Mike. During my stay in 20205, I found entirely different attitude. If One has to believe that there are only 1 % of Christians. How come it is celebrated even from November end. I had personally experienced this. Funny.
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