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Epidemic

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Epidemic

Postby Kenitai » Thu 08.02.2007 9:37 pm

Recently, I encountered a news article (I probably lost the link), about assaults in trains, perversion in trains caused by males towards females. In that article, whoever wrote it, said it has become a serious issue, and even called it a epidemic in Japan.
Is it true? Has anyone, who have been/or are in Japan- seen any kinds of situations like this? What would you do? It's been bothering me, and yes, I'd ofcourse make those who are doing it in front of me, pay, maybe not in a too public way. Though I'm not a ruffian. However, I wanted to hear some opinions on it.
Last edited by Kenitai on Thu 08.02.2007 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby chikara » Thu 08.02.2007 9:53 pm

It is not uncommon and they have females only carriages on some trains.

Edit: Here's a link
Last edited by chikara on Thu 08.02.2007 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby Mike Cash » Fri 08.03.2007 6:43 am

Like so many other stories in the world.....a kernel of truth, presented with hyperbole and sensationalistic hype.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby a_iwai » Fri 08.03.2007 8:13 am

I think it is complexed problem. There are many factors to have to consider about it. But I think it will disappear by simply resolving the problem of overcrowding of trains at rush hour, although it is quite difficult to resolve this problem.

Do you know the situation of Japanese train at rush hour called "通勤ラッシュ/tsuukin rasshu"? It's too crazy! As the result of soaring land prices in Tokyo, people become living in the place far from Tokyo area. So, too many people need to go to job by train. In rush hour, anyone can not get on a train without touching other persons. Please imagine, how do you think if you had to bear to stand in such a situation more than one hour!

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RE: Epidemic

Postby Kenitai » Fri 08.03.2007 7:56 pm

I see, well that explains the opportunity to do those ( for the males in there) bad activities.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby stevie » Fri 08.03.2007 8:12 pm

Going on the Tokyo subway around rush hour is an experience, that's for sure - and for me, it was one where you have to utterly surrender your personal space and your ability to breathe comfortably. Suffice to say, it rules. It's surprisingly easy to get a conversation started in that environment! I'm sure most people do not enjoy it as much as me, and doing it every day would be a bit of a killer. I only did it once :)

Most of the Tokyo Metro trains I saw have women only carriages for the rush hour. I'm not exactly sure what happens if a guy gets on during those times, however. Gotta be a social faux pas going on there.

Anyway, I was only in Japan for a month but I never really saw any harassment like that going on (I guess it's not the kind of thing you'd notice unless you're either looking for it or the victim makes it known, though). But a couple of my Japanese friends have talked about it before.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby Harisenbon » Fri 08.03.2007 8:38 pm

Anyway, I was only in Japan for a month but I never really saw any harassment like that going on


See, that's the thing. The only peope who notice it are the toucher and the touchee. Like mike says, calling it an epidemic is sensationalist hyperbole, but it is a problem on the trains. My wife would get chikaned by the same guy every friday on her way to school on the subways. Because the train is so packed, you can't really do anything about it. She finally had to change the train she took to avoid it.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby stevie » Fri 08.03.2007 9:26 pm

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. And it's really sad that the situation seems to have no immediate solution, and that women such as your wife have to make those alterations to her day-to-day life (meanwhile the guy will probably just keep on doing it to more women).

I'm not too sure what the social stigma is if a woman in those situations does speak up about being touched (if she can even tell who it was) - either way, I imagine doing such on a train rammed full of people you don't know doesn't make it easy.

And as for the guy.. it's something I just can't get my head around. I dunno about anyone else but I've never been into touching a girl who's not into touching me back. Doing such to any unknown woman on a crowded train, repeatedly no less, just seems like a pathetic act, not to mention extremely unattractive to the vast majority of women on earth.
Last edited by stevie on Fri 08.03.2007 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby Dehitay » Fri 08.03.2007 9:31 pm

no immediate soluation? They could do what an American women would do >=D
However, I don't think that kind of behavior is well accepted in Japan.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby AJBryant » Sat 08.04.2007 1:20 am

I do seem to remember reading one story of a college girl grabbing a hand that was groping her, raising it up real high and yelling "Whose hand is this?" and not letting go until they arrived at a station, where she dragged the poor salariman to the nearest security person...


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RE: Epidemic

Postby stevie » Sat 08.04.2007 5:13 am

Dehitay, that's why I was wondering about the social stigma - I know here in the UK if you tried that stuff you'd probably end up with a smack in the face and just about every girl and guy on the train would support the girl and think you were an asshole and most likely will not let you forget it. I'm just not sure if it's the same story in Japan. I haven't really read up on the social dynamics of groping women on trains to be honest!

Anyway, from Wikipedia:
Groping in crowded commuter trains has been a problem in Japan; according to a survey conducted by Tokyo Metropolitan Police and East Japan Railway Company, two-thirds of female riders in their twenties and thirties reported that they had been groped on trains, and the majority had been victimized frequently. Authorities have been unable to control the chikan activities, as trains are too crowded to identify the perpetrators, courts have traditionally been lenient, and victims are too often ashamed to come forward.


So when I say no immediate solution I meant it's just unlikely to change until there's a social shift that the victims no longer feel so ashmed to come forward as in some (most?) western countries. Which is also, I think, why that college girl story rules.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby Mike Cash » Sat 08.04.2007 6:28 am

An American friend of mine, a gent strong as an ox and twice as smart, told me about how he handled a chikan situation that happened right next to him on the subway.

When the doors opened at the next station, he threw the bastard off the train. And when I say "threw"....I mean "threw".

We would be remiss if we didn't have at least a little mention of the fact that there is a flip side to the chikan problem...that of girls falsely accusing men of having touched them, usually in hopes of scoring some quick cash in order to get them to withdraw their charges. Still leaves the men with ruined lives and sometimes destroys their families, but they have a chance to avoid the close to 99% conviction rate that Japanese prosecutors enjoy.
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RE: Epidemic

Postby Kenitai » Sat 08.04.2007 12:26 pm

Mike Cash wrote:
An American friend of mine, a gent strong as an ox and twice as smart, told me about how he handled a chikan situation that happened right next to him on the subway.

When the doors opened at the next station, he threw the bastard off the train. And when I say "threw"....I mean "threw".

We would be remiss if we didn't have at least a little mention of the fact that there is a flip side to the chikan problem...that of girls falsely accusing men of having touched them, usually in hopes of scoring some quick cash in order to get them to withdraw their charges. Still leaves the men with ruined lives and sometimes destroys their families, but they have a chance to avoid the close to 99% conviction rate that Japanese prosecutors enjoy.


Damn right. Atleast better than kicking that person, maybe it would have cause a ruckus. Question: Anyone know what would the penalty be for just kicking a person in Japan(maybe in a train)?
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RE: Epidemic

Postby katafei » Sat 08.04.2007 1:30 pm

...where she dragged the poor salariman to the nearest security person...
poor???
Good for her!

Mike Cash wrote:
We would be remiss if we didn't have at least a little mention of the fact that there is a flip side to the chikan problem...that of girls falsely accusing men of having touched them, usually in hopes of scoring some quick cash in order to get them to withdraw their charges.

Well, this probably does happen as well, but.... it reminds me of other male excuses like "she asked for it" and "she enjoyed it just as much as I did"
Gets my blood pressure up just a little bit too much...
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RE: Epidemic

Postby Infidel » Sat 08.04.2007 2:50 pm

Well, this probably does happen as well, but.... it reminds me of other male excuses like "she asked for it" and "she enjoyed it just as much as I did"
Gets my blood pressure up just a little bit too much...


other male excuses? How is being falsely accused an "excuse?" An excuse = "yes I did it, but..." Not, "I didn't do it."

I've physically Seen girls falsly call out "Rape" as a way to get attention. It's a sick practice. It was even stupid in this case because there were 20 people present who could tell that it was not a rape in any way shape or form, it was just an argument with a male.

I've also sat in a restaurant and listened to a girl. "He raped me a couple of weeks ago." Other guy at table, "Did you say no?" Girl: "No" guy: "Did you resist or in any way indicate you were not interested?" girl: "no" guy: then how did he rape you?" girl: because I just realized that having sex with him was a bad idea......
Last edited by Infidel on Sat 08.04.2007 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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