Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?

Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby SinoSamurai » Thu 01.31.2008 5:05 pm

Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

:) :) :)
吾人之魂,古今神勇志士!
中華之魂,乃中華武士道也!
日本武士道之源泉,南宋之武士,
文天祥:人生自古誰無死,留取丹心照汗青!
發揚中華武士道精神,做一名兼具傳統與現代的武士。
東方武士道精神永垂不朽!
改變我一生的電影:《最後的武士》
User avatar
SinoSamurai
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu 01.03.2008 8:22 pm

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 01.31.2008 5:41 pm

Yes, but the advantage is limited.

The grammar is totally different, so you will get no help there. Knowing Chinese will not help you speak the language either.

When you learn to read, though, your knowledge of the kanji will help a lot. You already know probably 90% of the characters that are in common use in Japanese -- the other 10% will be made of parts that look familiar to you. The meanings will be maybe 60-70% the same. The readings will maybe be 5-10% the same.

It's a persistent myth that Chinese and Japanese people can read each other's writing -- that's definitely not true, but if you know how to read Chinese or Japanese, it's a big advantage in learning to read the other language.
-Chris Kern
User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
 
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby HarakoMeshi » Thu 01.31.2008 5:59 pm

I saw an episode of the NHK "Nihongo dekimasu" where a Chinese kid who was quite advanced in Japanese was saying the easyest thing was Kanji because they were just like Chinese.

Some have said they feel disadvantaged because the Chinese reading comes into their head instead of the Japanese one, but I guess there is no way for them to know who is more disadvantaged, someone who knows how to read Kanji in another language, or someone who doesn't know how to read Kanji at all.

Some studies showed that use of native language did not interfere with language acquisition; rather it was a lack of acquisition (i.e. ignorance of the target language) that led to falling back on native language.

In other words if you feel like you are going through your native language when reading Kanji (or other things), its not because of interference; you just haven't learned enough Japanese yet.
HarakoMeshi
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu 11.22.2007 8:46 pm

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby Adriano » Thu 01.31.2008 6:35 pm

the best pronounciation between a chinese, a korean and a brasilian is the chinese(hong kong).. 日本語で暮らそうではそうだけどね ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrJ1CamV3UQ&feature=related
Lawrence Leinかっこいい^^V
User avatar
Adriano
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu 12.13.2007 8:04 am
Location: Osaka
Skype chat: adrianojapan2008
Native language: Portuguese

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby Nibble » Thu 01.31.2008 6:52 pm

你不是中国人吗?应该是你告诉我们才对! :p
User avatar
Nibble
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu 07.28.2005 6:39 pm

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby ss » Thu 01.31.2008 8:10 pm

正是,Sino还没发舞シ的看法。洗耳恭聽。 :p
User avatar
ss
 
Posts: 1656
Joined: Fri 11.18.2005 10:07 am
Native language: English speaking family

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby NocturnalOcean » Thu 01.31.2008 9:11 pm

Adriano wrote:
the best pronounciation between a chinese, a korean and a brasilian is the chinese(hong kong).. 日本語で暮らそうではそうだけどね ^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrJ1CamV3UQ&feature=related
Lawrence Leinかっこいい^^V


Usually though from my experience, is that the koreans usually win by far when it comes to pronunciation compared to chinese.
失敗は成功の元
NocturnalOcean
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Mon 03.12.2007 12:43 pm
Native language: Norwegian

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby Oracle » Thu 01.31.2008 9:42 pm

I'd agree. Chinese students I studied with in Japan had a big advantage in the kanji/vocab area, but having Mandarin or Cantonese as a first language doesn't seem to help at all with pronunciation/accent. There is a distinctive 'Chinese' accent in Japanese which is as just as bad (but different to) the usual English-speaking-gaijin accent (mine included :) )
Last edited by Oracle on Thu 01.31.2008 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Oracle
 
Posts: 537
Joined: Mon 02.13.2006 9:03 am
Native language: English

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby ss » Thu 01.31.2008 10:17 pm

My sensei particularly praises the Chinese students (who come from China) from my JP class. He says they are fast learners and speak like Japanese, no Chinese accent.

Mine, on the other hand, has strong English accent. Sensei can’t stand my Japanglish which is a mixture of English and Japanese, whenever I forget the pronunciation, I would just insert the English pronunciation in between words. It indeed fun to see sensei with this expression Image. I have to admit that Hanzi pronunciation override my mind. Sensei wants me to make improvement in this area.
User avatar
ss
 
Posts: 1656
Joined: Fri 11.18.2005 10:07 am
Native language: English speaking family

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby SinoSamurai » Fri 02.01.2008 3:36 am

thanks everyone!!

however, some of pronunciation it's so slimlier like Chinese, e.g 図書館

why is that?
吾人之魂,古今神勇志士!
中華之魂,乃中華武士道也!
日本武士道之源泉,南宋之武士,
文天祥:人生自古誰無死,留取丹心照汗青!
發揚中華武士道精神,做一名兼具傳統與現代的武士。
東方武士道精神永垂不朽!
改變我一生的電影:《最後的武士》
User avatar
SinoSamurai
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu 01.03.2008 8:22 pm

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby Adriano » Fri 02.01.2008 7:12 am

that´s why I said 日本語で暮らそうではそうだけどね.
Some people says that the korean grammar is similar nihongo..
In fact, when I walk by Bom Retiro(korean neighborhood), I fell like walking by Liberdade(japanese neighborhood) because the pronounciation is so similar that I need to get closer to confirm.
User avatar
Adriano
 
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu 12.13.2007 8:04 am
Location: Osaka
Skype chat: adrianojapan2008
Native language: Portuguese

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 02.01.2008 9:36 am

SinoSamurai wrote:

however, some of pronunciation it's so slimlier like Chinese, e.g 図書館

why is that?


The word was borrowed from Chinese. It depends on how much the Chinese sounds have changed, since the borrowing of the words (and characters) was done a long time ago.
-Chris Kern
User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
 
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby chchan45 » Sat 02.02.2008 12:09 am

The word was borrowed from Chinese. It depends on how much the Chinese sounds have changed, since the borrowing of the words (and characters) was done a long time ago.


Actually a lot of these 熟語 are invented by the Japanese and taken back into Chinese. The Japanese were the first amongst the 漢字文化圏 to seriously study the works in the Western world. 文化 itself was a clever invention from them.


To answer the original question, it certainly helps in reading, but causes problems in listening. When the Chinese hear a 熟語, they tend to "map" it to a word in the Chinese language rather than try to decipher its meaning. This is a different mechanism and takes slightly longer. Unfortunately Japanese has much fewer syllables than Chinese so the sounds can map to a larger number of kanjis.

Chinese grammar is also completely different from Japanese grammar so it does not help either. You will probably see me making mistakes with がは for ages to come.
Last edited by chchan45 on Wed 04.02.2008 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
chchan45
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Wed 03.01.2006 10:01 am
Location: United Kingdom

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 02.02.2008 12:23 am

Yeah, you're right. According to the Koujien, 図書館 is a Meiji-era word to translate "library" from English -- it was probably then borrowed into Chinese from Japanese. However, this is an unusual word in that the pronunciation is fairly close to the Japanese (another easy example of this is 電話).

More common is words that have some resemblance but are too different to make comprehension automatic. For instance, 汽車 means "car" in Chinese but "steam train" in Japanese, and the pronunciations aren't really that close (qiche vs. kisha).

EDIT: When I show my Chinese friends Japanese stuff, one comment I often get is "Oh, that's what that character means in classical Chinese."
Last edited by Yudan Taiteki on Sat 02.02.2008 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Chris Kern
User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
 
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: Does Chinese learn Japanese have adventage?

Postby AJBryant » Sat 02.02.2008 3:57 am

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
When I show my Chinese friends Japanese stuff, one comment I often get is "Oh, that's what that character means in classical Chinese."


Yeah, Classical Chinese was hella fun because of that. :)


Tony
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Next

Return to Learning Materials Reviews & Language Learning tips

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests