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Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

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Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby Mr.Paper » Sat 08.29.2009 3:47 pm

Trying to learn Japanese by yourself? Well, that can be really challenging since you don't have a teacher to correct you when wrong. And more than likely if you use textbooks, they will only teach formal forms. If you want to be fluent in Japanese, you need to learn all the forms not just formal, otherwise you won't be fluent. Here is what I do to become fluent in Japanese. Some may view these as just supplements due to not having a teacher around but I strongly recommend you to use my method if you're a beginner.

Materials you will need:

A composition notebook
A three ring binder
Lose leaf paper (lots of it)
Tab dividers (like about 6 of them)
Sharpie pen
Japanese to English English to Japanese dictionary

Alright when you're learning a language, you will be taking lots of notes. Where are these notes going to come from you say? From websites on the internet.

All about verbs (1) Japanese verb groups:
http://japanese.about.com/od/grammarles ... 31101a.htm

All about verbs (2) verb conjugations:
http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa031101b.htm

All about verbs (3) the te form:
http://japanese.about.com/od/grammarles ... 31101c.htm

Now in your three ring binder make a section thats called "verbs" and write the notes down in sections. And then study one section for a week or two and move on. When studying a section practice using the the new verb form by making sentences.

Adjectives in Japanese:
http://www.studyjapanese.org/language-r ... adjectives

Write down the grammar notes on adjectives and put them uder a tab called adjectives. Practice the new grammar by making sentences.

Adverbs in Japanese:
http://www.studyjapanese.org/language-reference/adverbs

Write down the grammar info on adverbs and put them under a tab called adverbs. Practice the new grammar by making sentences.

Now you will also need to learn the passive, conditional, volitional, and imperative forms to really understand Japanese.

Use these websites:
http://www.studyjapanese.org/language-reference
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/

You will need to find them yourself cause it will get confusing if I type them all separate. But do the same like with the verbs, which is writng each form in sections. But put these under a new tab called "Grammar." Those two websites have additional grammar besides the passive, conditonal, volitional, and imperative, that I recommend you study.

The composition notebook is used for writing down your ideas in Japanese. This will help you think in Japanese and develop a Japanse language brain. Write down anything you want but in Japanese everyday.

Hiragana and Katakana
If your dictionary already has the alphabet with the characters then thats good. If not go to google and find the hiragana and katakana tables and print them out and put them in a tab labeled hiragana and katakana. Use the sharpie pen for writing down anything in Japanese. Use this video for stroke order. Stroke order is very important in Japanese so please don't ignore it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rHEgeyacgU

Pronunciation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38MJW2q6Vp0
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby furrykef » Sat 08.29.2009 4:50 pm

Mr.Paper wrote:Some may view these as just supplements due to not having a teacher around but I strongly recommend you to use my method if you're a beginner.


A beginner? You mean like yourself? It wasn't long ago at all that you didn't even know that i-adjectives don't need a copula, and you committed serious "Japanese 101" blunders like using を instead of が with です!

Don't get me wrong, offering ideas or advice is not a bad thing. What I take issue with is you're coming in here and talking like you're some kind of expert on Japanese and we should all follow your example, when quite frankly I'm wondering if you could even pass Japanese 101. Your posts have an air of authority about them, but you are not in a position of authority. There is a big difference between something like this:

"I came up with this language learning method, what do you think of it?"
"This method I've come up with has worked for me for other languages; will it work for Japanese?"
"This method I've come up with has been working well for me; anybody want to follow along?"

...and something like this:

"Hey, this is my ultra-successful learning method! This is what you should do to be fluent in Japanese!"

Before talking that way, it would be a good idea to actually become fluent in Japanese first.

Sorry to rant like this -- other members of TJP can attest that I rarely ever do so here -- but I'm quickly tiring of your "know it all" attitude. Please, please learn some humility.

- Kef
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Also see my lang-8 journal, where you can help me practice Japanese (and Spanish, and Italian!)
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby phreadom » Sat 08.29.2009 5:15 pm

That's alright... he's on his way to a ban if he keeps this up. He's been warned by me already in PM.

Hopefully some people here can talk some sense into him and he'll be mature enough to learn a little and re-evaluate his attitude before that happens.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sat 08.29.2009 6:27 pm

Mr.Paper wrote:Trying to learn Japanese by yourself? Well, that can be really challenging since you don't have a teacher to correct you when wrong. And more than likely if you use textbooks, they will only teach formal forms.


Have you actually looked at any textbooks?

Here is what I do to become fluent in Japanese.


No, this is what you are doing now that you hope will make you fluent -- as your other posts show, you're still pretty early in your studies to be recommending study methods.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby Mr.Paper » Sat 08.29.2009 6:40 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
Mr.Paper wrote:Trying to learn Japanese by yourself? Well, that can be really challenging since you don't have a teacher to correct you when wrong. And more than likely if you use textbooks, they will only teach formal forms.


Have you actually looked at any textbooks?

Here is what I do to become fluent in Japanese.


No, this is what you are doing now that you hope will make you fluent -- as your other posts show, you're still pretty early in your studies to be recommending study methods.

Uhh ok.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby Mr.Paper » Sat 08.29.2009 6:43 pm

furrykef wrote:
Mr.Paper wrote:Some may view these as just supplements due to not having a teacher around but I strongly recommend you to use my method if you're a beginner.


A beginner? You mean like yourself? It wasn't long ago at all that you didn't even know that i-adjectives don't need a copula, and you committed serious "Japanese 101" blunders like using を instead of が with です!

Don't get me wrong, offering ideas or advice is not a bad thing. What I take issue with is you're coming in here and talking like you're some kind of expert on Japanese and we should all follow your example, when quite frankly I'm wondering if you could even pass Japanese 101. Your posts have an air of authority about them, but you are not in a position of authority. There is a big difference between something like this:

"I came up with this language learning method, what do you think of it?"
"This method I've come up with has worked for me for other languages; will it work for Japanese?"
"This method I've come up with has been working well for me; anybody want to follow along?"

...and something like this:

"Hey, this is my ultra-successful learning method! This is what you should do to be fluent in Japanese!"

Before talking that way, it would be a good idea to actually become fluent in Japanese first.

Sorry to rant like this -- other members of TJP can attest that I rarely ever do so here -- but I'm quickly tiring of your "know it all" attitude. Please, please learn some humility.

- Kef


I don't have an attitude./ I'm just offering advice. And I know more than 101. I'm already halfway there to becoming fluent.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby phreadom » Sat 08.29.2009 6:46 pm

Mr.Paper wrote:I don't have an attitude./ I'm just offering advice. And I know more than 101. I'm already halfway there to becoming fluent.


Yes, you do have an attitude. You've also been warned. Now you have people who either ARE fluent, or who are much more advanced than you telling you that you're not as advanced as you think you are, and you're being flippant and cocky still in spite of it.

I've been trying to give you a chance to straighten up today, but it doesn't look like the warnings or the advice from the people who are much more advanced than you are having any effect on your attitude. :(
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby furrykef » Sat 08.29.2009 9:37 pm

Mr.Paper wrote:I don't have an attitude./ I'm just offering advice.


Go back and re-read my post, particularly that bit that starts with, "There is a big difference between..."

Whether you intend to have an attitude or not, you definitely come across as having one. You should consider how other people are going to see your words. You say you are just offering advice, but you are doing so in a way that can give the impression that you know your stuff. As we've all been trying to point out, you don't.

And I know more than 101. I'm already halfway there to becoming fluent.


As I've said in another thread, my Japanese is far beyond yours and I'm still far from "halfway there to becoming fluent". If you don't know that "nihongo wa muzukashii" is a complete, grammatical sentence, then, I am sorry, you are not anywhere near "halfway there to becoming fluent". You're not even 1/10th the way to becoming fluent. I knew that it was a perfectly valid sentence like six years ago. Granted, I haven't been studying Japanese the whole time between then and now, but the point is, I know more than you do, and I'm still learning how to say very basic things. This makes your claims of "I'm not a beginner" and whatnot sound ridiculous.

There's nothing wrong with being a beginner, or with making mistakes like that. The problem comes when you think you know much more than you actually do. Once upon a time, there was a paper that was published called "Unskilled and Unaware of It". I suggest you go read it.

The road to fluency in Japanese is a very long road, my friend. There are a few people who can accomplish it in a short amount of time, but those people did it through hardcore dedication that most of us don't have the time/money/energy for. Could it be the case that you're one of those few who has what it takes? Sure. But you don't know until you get there.

- Kef
Founder of Learning Languages Through Video Games.
Also see my lang-8 journal, where you can help me practice Japanese (and Spanish, and Italian!)
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby nukemarine » Sun 08.30.2009 1:27 am

Mr. Papers,

You can save a lot of grief that'll aim your way if you preface advice with current levels.

I'm no where near fluent or literate to a functional degree. I can however say I have XXX hours of kanji studies, YYY hours of vocabulary studies and ZZZ hours of grammar studies on top of my LLLL hours of listening and RRR pages of read material in native Japanese. Another way is to post examples of your abilities either as text or audio.

Base on the above, you can then say if the advice I'm offering is worth considering especially when it comes to efficacy of study methods.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby furrykef » Sun 08.30.2009 3:17 am

I'm just noting that, as I found in another thread, phreadom banned him for a week. So I guess we should wait until he comes back and see if he understands what he's doing wrong.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby phreadom » Sun 08.30.2009 5:27 am

If you guys want to deal with him, I'd consider unbanning him. But given that he completely ignored my private message warning, and continued with his attitude and poor treatment of others here, I didn't think giving him more rope to hang himself with was worth the trouble.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby furrykef » Sun 08.30.2009 6:02 am

Well, my vote (for what it's worth) would be to make it three days rather than a whole week. The guy needed a swift kick in the pants, sure, but he might not be completely beyond hope.
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby phreadom » Sun 08.30.2009 7:12 am

You're probably right. I wonder if it's as simple as re-banning him and choosing 2 days this time instead of 7?

*looks into it...*
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby keatonatron » Sun 08.30.2009 10:50 am

Unban reban?
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Re: Mr.Papers' Language Learning Method

Postby phreadom » Sun 08.30.2009 11:11 am

Updated the ban. (unbanned, rebanned)

Length of ban: Until -> 01 Sep 2009 07:00 pm
Reason for ban: persistent rude behavior and trolling
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