Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Rosetta Stone

Rosetta Stone

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby richvh » Tue 09.19.2006 2:00 pm

"Girl THAT IS riding a bicycle"
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語
richvh
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby hungryhotei » Tue 09.19.2006 2:07 pm

Cyborg Ninja wrote:
Why does it say something like "じてんしゃ を のる おんなのこ?" Why is "おんなのこ" after the phrase?


You might be interested in this thread:
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5432#57429
天気がいいから、散歩しましょう。
hungryhotei
 
Posts: 1067
Joined: Wed 04.12.2006 5:06 am
Location: Germany
Native language: English

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby chobo2 » Tue 09.19.2006 2:38 pm

hungryhotei wrote:
chobo2 wrote:
or look at the guy on the bottom right holding the dog. What is that suppose to mean?


Didn't you learn the vocab on the first page there? You should already know おとこのこ and いぬ. The only other part is the と and you were taught that on the second page. You seem to just be going forwards without actually learning the words on each slide (you guessed ねことくるま might mean big and small, even though you should already have learnt ねこ and くるま was probably taught in one of the pages you didn't show us) and not actually thinking deep enough. This software seems to be trying to make you do the work, making you learn by discovery. You have to think about what と means and work it out from the examples given. The writers of the software think that this is a better learning method than simply telling you wat と means.


I can see what you mean I just fliped through it fast to get a look at it. I can see how you mean that there building on each other but still are not a 100% clear and I just don't want to learn the wrong meanings but if they got the pdf to tell you what each one means then I can just refer to it after a lesson or something to make sure I am not learning the wrong thing.
chobo2
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue 09.19.2006 1:29 am

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby Infidel » Tue 09.19.2006 10:19 pm

any self study is much more difficult because it is very easy to teach yourself wrong. It takes twice as much work to self-teach as to learn in a classroom.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
User avatar
Infidel
 
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 1:12 am
Native language: 英語

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby chobo2 » Wed 09.20.2006 1:51 am

Infidel wrote:
any self study is much more difficult because it is very easy to teach yourself wrong. It takes twice as much work to self-teach as to learn in a classroom.


Hmm I usally find the opposite I usally find that when your in a class it just goes to fast and if alot of people know the subject the teachers go faster. I find I learn so much more when teaching myself at my own speed then in a class-room.
chobo2
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue 09.19.2006 1:29 am

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby Infidel » Wed 09.20.2006 2:00 am

chobo2 wrote:
Infidel wrote:
any self study is much more difficult because it is very easy to teach yourself wrong. It takes twice as much work to self-teach as to learn in a classroom.


Hmm I usally find the opposite I usally find that when your in a class it just goes to fast and if alot of people know the subject the teachers go faster. I find I learn so much more when teaching myself at my own speed then in a class-room.


You say you find the opposite, then proceed to vindicate my every word.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
User avatar
Infidel
 
Posts: 3093
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 1:12 am
Native language: 英語

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby CajunCoder » Wed 09.20.2006 2:12 am

AJBryant wrote:
The problem with something like rosetta stone is that Japanese is a very, very grammar intense language.


I have to disagree. Japanese, unlike many European languages, has a VERY simple conjugation pattern (especially in the "standard/polite" Japanese usually taught foreigners). If you're learning something like French, you have half a dozen "regular" conjugations for which you need to learn a buttload of paradigms, to say nothing of their dozens upon dozens of irregular (and very important and common!) verbs.

While I'm not a great fan of solitary user, computerized/CD-based learning methods (e.g., Rosetta or Pimsleur), there is no inherent problem with Rosetta *if* one is willing to actually do the work and use some common sense with what is being seen and what is being taught.

When you've been taught the words for "boy" and "girl," and then see a girl on a bike and a boy on a horse, and get "うま を のる おとこのこ" and "じてんしゃ を のる おんなのこ", and if you can't make the connection that the two words that appear the same in both pictures are "をのる" (and therefore must mean "riding" because they're doing the same action and that's what they're doing, on different things, and then figure out that "じてんしゃ" is "bike" and "うま" must be "horse" -- well, you probably shouldn't be using Rosetta Stone and, frankly, probably shouldn't be trying to teach yourself, then, either.

Sorry....


Tony

Tony



Perhaps I worded that wrong. Japanese grammar is simple and logical once you understand it, but it can be quite confusing when you first start. It is nothing like English. Languages such as Spanish are so simular to English, you can pick up vocabulary and differences in grammar easily. Japanese, however, requires a bit of explaining to someone coming from a background in another language. There is no way that one could learn to use the language just from pictures and examples. Students will end up saying things like 「食べますが欲しい」、「彼は飲みたい」、「宿題を始まります」など. You would have quite a hard time learning how to conjugate and use conjugations simply from examples and sentences, at least, not without a *lot* of experience, until you begin noticing patterns for yourself.

I believe that many people buy rosetta stone expecting it to teach them everything they need to know, in every aspect of the language. I just wanted to warn that you can not do this with Japanese. It may be a good program to use in conjunction with other learning methods, but it alone is by no means sufficient. Pictures alone can only go so far in defining ideas, and examples alone can only go so far in teaching how to apply.

I am all for learning from example and context, but this can only go so far. Good explenations of grammar and how to apply it are required, or at any rate, will make life infinitely easier.

If you have money to waste/a way of getting a discount, and an alternative way of studying, go for it. Otherwise, I don't consider the program to live up to its price-tag, and you can do just as good studying on your own, from free sources (at least, if do as I do, and become obsessed in researching subjects).
Last edited by CajunCoder on Wed 09.20.2006 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
CajunCoder
 
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue 09.27.2005 4:08 am

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby Apocalyps » Wed 09.20.2006 10:37 am

I don't like Rosetta at all.. There is no explanation AT ALL... They don't teach anything about grammar, particles and stuff... Just pictures + sentences...

I don't like it :(
私は忍者ですよ!
Apocalyps
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon 03.20.2006 12:21 pm

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby paul_b » Wed 09.20.2006 10:44 am

Apocalyps wrote:
I don't like Rosetta at all.. There is no explanation AT ALL... They don't teach anything about grammar, particles and stuff... Just pictures + sentences...

I don't like it :(


Would you like it on a train?
Would you like it in the rain?
User avatar
paul_b
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Thu 06.01.2006 9:35 am

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby AJBryant » Wed 09.20.2006 2:22 pm

I do not like it all alone.
I do not trust Rosetta Stone.
I would not use it by itself.
I'd leave it there upon the shelf.
With books and teachers in a class
I'd give "self-taught" J. a pass.


Tony
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby paul_b » Wed 09.20.2006 2:29 pm

AJBryant wrote:
I do not like it all alone.
I do not trust Rosetta Stone.
I would not use it by itself.
I'd leave it there upon the shelf.
With books and teachers in a class
I'd give "self-taught" J. a pass.


All I can say is KEWWL! :D
User avatar
paul_b
 
Posts: 3210
Joined: Thu 06.01.2006 9:35 am

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby richvh » Wed 09.20.2006 2:41 pm

Would you use Rosetta Stone
While stranded in the Twilight Zone?
What if I called you on the phone,
And promised you an ice cream cone,
Then would you use Rosetta Stone
To learn the language on your own?
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語
richvh
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby chobo2 » Wed 09.20.2006 8:31 pm

Apocalyps wrote:
I don't like Rosetta at all.. There is no explanation AT ALL... They don't teach anything about grammar, particles and stuff... Just pictures + sentences...

I don't like it :(


I agree with you I don't think just doing rosetta stone by itself is the best idea but I think with books and other stuff it would be good. But it is nice to get to hear how each word sounds and see a picture to help you remember what it is. I think it will help increase your vocab but you do need a book to teach grammar so you can take those words and make different sentences with them and not just the ones they made.
chobo2
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue 09.19.2006 1:29 am

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby chiisu321 » Thu 09.21.2006 6:28 pm

I have rosetta.
I don't find it useful in actually directly LEARNING japanese. Just because they show you a picture and can give you words, doesn't mean you know what you're saying. I don't regret buying it however. It, so far, has been a helpful tool in reviewing what i have learned on my own from books and sites. Rosetta will do nothing for you on it's own, but if you combine it with other materials it will be very helpful. I would also like to point out that it provides reading practice and listening/pronunciation. It does help things to sink in after you have learned it, but
whether or not you buy it depends on what you intend to use it for. Learning or Practice.

Last note: Rosetta doesn't really teach grammer, it just uses it without indicating the differences between one phrase or the other (except for with pictures, which isn't always helpful) =/
chiisu321
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Mon 07.17.2006 12:27 pm

RE: Rosetta Stone

Postby the_haunted_boy » Thu 09.21.2006 9:21 pm

It is good for learing kana and kanji, but as far as grammer goes it would be best if you just finished first year Japanese at least.
the_haunted_boy
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue 02.28.2006 12:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Learning Materials Reviews & Language Learning tips

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests