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Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Have a textbook or grammar book that you find particularly helpful? What about a learning tip to share with others?

RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby Mike Cash » Wed 11.08.2006 3:24 pm

Mukade wrote:

So, for example, I want to learn the kanji 外. I decide that two readings are really important for me to learn right now - ガイ (on reading) and そと (kun reading). When I make my flashcard it will look like this:


外国

the flip side will read:

そと - outside
がいこく - foreign country


Here's an idea for one if you want to learn the kanji 東:


東海
東海運

ひがし
とうかい
あずまかいうん

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Last edited by Mike Cash on Wed 11.08.2006 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby Oyaji » Wed 11.08.2006 3:59 pm

外国で住んでいる友達


[nitpick]外国住んでいる友達[/nitpick]
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby RpgN » Wed 11.08.2006 4:14 pm

I'm not sure if this helps you, but I find the best way to learn kanji is to read a lot. Don't learn kanji on it's own, because you'll forget it pretty quick. I always practice by playing Japanese version games, go to Japanese sites and read the news, I read manga (the best way to learn new words, since you have furigana there, kana above the kanji) and I read lyrics a lot. Actually, I try to use Japanese as much as I can and eventually you will learn new words (fast) and understand what the text is about. Good luck!
So, do you think I can learn Japanese?
私は日本語を習うことができると思いますか?
これは本当に難しいですね?だから今は頑張っている! 楽しいです!
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 11.08.2006 4:37 pm

Oyaji wrote:
外国で住んでいる友達


[nitpick]外国住んでいる友達[/nitpick]


ありがとうございます。「で」と「に」は時々区別しにくいと思います。「で」は常に"action at a location"という説明がありますが、「住んでいる」は"action"かどうか私に不明です。
-Chris Kern
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby Schattenjedi » Wed 11.08.2006 5:24 pm

AJBryant wrote:
I swear to God, everytime someone joins here it's like reinventing the freaking wheel. Does NO one bother to actually read the "READ BEFORE YOU POST" threads, and the FAQs, or even think of doing a bloody search to see how blasted often and how bleedin' regularly their question pops up already?


No, no and no would be the answers to those questions I think.
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby magma » Wed 11.08.2006 8:30 pm

No, no and no would be the answers to those questions I think.

Hai, hai, and hai could also work.
神は、実に、そのひとり子をお与えになったほどに、世を愛された。
それは御子を信じる者が、ひとりとして滅びることなく、永遠のいのちを持つためである。
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby oris » Sun 11.12.2006 4:44 am

I swear to God, everytime someone joins here it's like reinventing the freaking wheel. Does NO one bother to actually read the "READ BEFORE YOU POST" threads, and the FAQs, or even think of doing a bloody search to see how blasted often and how bleedin' regularly their question pops up already?


Well, you see, starting to learn a new language is not something you want to mess up with. People want to make sure they start the right way. You should really take it as measuring 7 times and cutting once. To make sure i'm on the right track - i would ask the same question 10 times and if not understood ask again.
And today learning language when there's tons and tons of different resources online is harder because it easily confuses people. It's not like you have one book, one dictionary and one person to ask questions.
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby Infidel » Sun 11.12.2006 7:24 am

People want to make sure they start the right way.


I PROBABLY KNOW DOUBLE WHAT ALL OF U KNOW COMBINED
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby AJBryant » Sun 11.12.2006 7:01 pm

Oh, Lord.... Flashbacks. :)


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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby Kisshu » Sun 11.12.2006 7:50 pm

Well, when it comes to my personal opinion, I would say memorize one or two of the meaning first and then learn the other ones later when you learn them in your vocabulary. I have the Genki learning system and they require you to learn one or two of the meaning that are discussed in the lessons and show you in the vocabulary section later on if/when there are other preadings for you to memorize. Before Genki, I tried to learn all the meanings, but I found it rather strenuous and didn't use most of the pronounciations
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby archaeous » Sun 11.12.2006 7:56 pm

What seems to be working for me is I am just learning what kanji mean before I even begin to worry about their readings. I am still beginning since I only know a little under 200 kanji but have not even looked at the on- and kun- readings for any.

However it is coming naturally which seems to be the best way. Even though I have put my grammar and speaking on hold for a bit (I finished Genki I) I remember compounds that contained the kanji and can come up with readings without any memorization. While it may be slower to start since you won't have a particular kanji mastered I think it will make better mastery of the entire language in the end.

There are a few just reading memorizations I might do. Heisig's 2 since there is a section of pure groups where you can tell a reading for any kanji with that radical.
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby BigKahuna13 » Wed 11.15.2006 2:07 am

If you really feel that you must learn kanji for the sake of learning kanji - which is a pretty bad idea imho - an even worse idea is learning the readings for the sake of learning the readings. Take 生for example. According to http://www.jdic it has something like 10 different readings (close to 30 if you count nanori). Most of those are probably obscure. Why memorize information that's of limited value at best?

Learn how to read/write/pronounce the words you come across in daily reading.
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 11.15.2006 4:19 am

I think there's a tendency of beginners to focus too much on kanji -- I'm not completely sure why this is, but it may have something to do with the idea that you can quantify your Japanese progress -- i.e. if you know 500 kanji you're intermediate, 1000 kanji advanced, and 1945 you have completed your study (or something like that), but this isn't really correct. The number of kanji you "know" doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how much Japanese you can actually read. I think that people sometimes forget that the kanji are worthless just sitting by themselves; their only use is to be able to read (or write) Japanese.

Point being that while you do have to learn kanji eventually if you want to read Japanese, you don't have to start from day 1. Learn some basic grammar and vocabulary -- you'll find it much easier to learn the kanji when you have sentences that you can read and vocabulary words to "hang" the kanji on.

I won't even comment on Heisig beyond saying that IMO his system is beyond worthless, verging on being a fraud. His entire system is based on flawed premises and takes the completely illogical step of separating the kanji from the Japanese language.
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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby AJBryant » Wed 11.15.2006 4:59 am

I won't even comment on Heisig beyond saying that IMO his system is beyond worthless, verging on being a fraud. His entire system is based on flawed premises and takes the completely illogical step of separating the kanji from the Japanese language.


Preach it, brother.


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RE: Should I memorize all of the Kanji pronounciations?

Postby archaeous » Wed 11.15.2006 5:53 am

however that is how almost all language is learned to start with. In all romanized languages you learn how to make the sounds detached from acually reading them till you know the sounds they can make.

Now I am not using Heisig I which is the one with no Japanese at all. Heisig II is how to derive readings based upon radicals which is far from worthless since you can make good guesses at readings of kanji you have never seen before. Maybe I am wrong and will pay for it later but learning an English definition for kanji seems to be very rapid and gives very rapid recall. The college textbook style was massivly slow and I forgot them immediately. Doing in steps I now have over 200 in about 2 weeks (this is reading and writing) And instead of getting slower rate of memorization and the speed of recall is getting faster.

Learning is HIGHLY individual and whatever works for someone is what they should do. A friend from my class knows all 1945 Kanji using Heisig in under 1 year which is pretty insane. And yes he can read and write both.
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