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what did you all use?

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what did you all use?

Postby Ichigo19 » Tue 11.07.2006 8:21 pm

hello, I am really needing to know what did you all use to read when you were learning japanese?

http://thejapanshop.com/recommendations.htm

that's to the japanshop.com's recommendation of level, and i would guess im at level 4ish. I will reach 304 kanji in 2 days i study 5 a day. I've done genki I and II and worked through A Basic Dictionary of Japanese Grammar so I'm about to the end of my upper beginner studies but i would like to reinforce what i've learned such as the 4 "ifs" and a few other grammatical structures that give me trouble but, I don't know what to read.

The reccommendations on that webpage suggest beginner readers or manga at my level. Now I have plenty of Shounen Jump and a few crayon shinchan and one detective conan mangas. But every time i try to read something I always come across something i either cant find the word for or I do not understand it because of some grammatical thing I haven't learned yet i would guess. Do you have any recommendations of what manga, beginner readers, or other reading material you used at the upper beginner stages of your study?

I would prefer something that doesn't use too much slang if possible right now, but would like whatever you can recommend none the less. Also if you could recommend to me what you used at upper intermediate and advanced levels as well so I wouldn't have to ask a similar question at that point in time i would very much appreciate it. Thank you. Sorry for any inconveinces if you've already answered this, I did check.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Schattenjedi » Tue 11.07.2006 10:43 pm

Try "Intermediate Japanese" from the Japan Times. Also, I think you should carry on with your manga reading. If you can't figure out a grammar pattern, ask for help or just skip over it.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Ichigo19 » Tue 11.07.2006 10:57 pm

do you mean "an integrated approach to intermediate japanese" ? I do have that I just haven't touched it yet because I want to master all the grammar I've come across so far and get to 300 kanji first for sure. Grammar isn't really a problem for me, mostly just vocab is and when I do read manga or the shounen jump what gets me is coming across a word that I do not find in either my dictionaries or wakan, and thus am stuck not able to find out a word.
私がいちごです。女じゃありません。いちごの名前がアニメの名前じゃありません。
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Schattenjedi » Wed 11.08.2006 12:41 am

Yeah, that's the book I'm talking about. It reinforces a lot of previously learned grammar as well so you can jump right into it.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about words that can't be found. I look for words in the following manner and never fail to discover them: 1. Check my Japanese-German dictionary, 2. Check goo's kokugo dict, 3. Wikipedia, 4. Google.

Needless to say, the word is always found sooner or later. Please give an example of words you can't find.
Last edited by Schattenjedi on Wed 11.08.2006 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby hungryhotei » Wed 11.08.2006 4:16 am

Ichigo19 wrote:
hello, I am really needing to know what did you all use to read when you were learning japanese?


I used my textbook(s) until I was someway over 3Q.

Schattenjedi wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you mean about words that can't be found. I look for words in the following manner and never fail to discover them: 1. Check my German-Japanese dictionary, 2. Check goo's kokugo dict, 3. Wikipedia, 4. Google.


I think it's because they are reading manga so it'll be full of things like ったくもう or っるせぇな (maybe). If you can't work them out from context (maybe you don't know the words まったく or うるさい for example) you are welcome to ask here too.
Last edited by hungryhotei on Wed 11.08.2006 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Mike Cash » Wed 11.08.2006 7:33 am

I used my surroundings in Japan, documents at work, hundreds of volumes of four-panel comics, newspaper articles, Japanese novels and non-fiction.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Ichigo19 » Wed 11.08.2006 8:38 am

ok this is the only example i can think of at the moment. I've asked about it in the translation section but i was only worried about the actual vocab and wasnt looking at this specific part now.

なぜこんな簡単な薬丹の調合もできんのじゃ?!このマヌケが!!

now we couldnt find a translation for yakutan other than it is some sort of medicine pill, tho もできん is also something i cant find i dunno if its a contracted form of something or not. I always get stumped by stuff like this. now what is goo's kokugo edict? and how do you look up words in the wikipedia? what are examples of 4 panel comics? I doubt I am ready for reading newspapers yet since I don't even know that many kanji, though I do have some that i received as shipping material once from the japan shop.
私がいちごです。女じゃありません。いちごの名前がアニメの名前じゃありません。
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby richvh » Wed 11.08.2006 9:32 am

もできん is particle も plus a variant of the plain negative present of できる (できん<<できぬ=できない)
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Schattenjedi » Wed 11.08.2006 12:13 pm

薬丹 is apparently a 熟語 created by the author. However thanks to the kanji, it's clear that it means remedy.

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/index.html

That website has a 国語辞典, a Wikipedia search function and a Google search function. All very convenient. As far as slang verb conjugations go, you will get used to them very fast if you continue reading manga. You should get some explanations of slang here and there in textbooks. Seeing the slang used over and over again in context should make things painfully clear though. Here are a couple of tidbits on slang:

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/negverb2.html

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/casual.html

http://nihongo.3yen.com/category/colloquialism/

In case you can't tell, I'm a Tae Kim fan (as every learner of Japanese should be).

As for words like yakutan, just be prepared to run into them once in a while. No matter what you're reading or listening to, authors and speakers take the liberty of creating new words from time to time. So just bear with it.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby datdo » Wed 11.08.2006 2:59 pm

Yeah word creation, neology(woo SAT word), happens in lots of languages. It is said that Shakespeare created almost 10% of the English language...though I find this hard to believe...well you hungryhotei should know. He's French ;) <---see smiley. its a joke.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 11.08.2006 5:23 pm

I think it's because they are reading manga so it'll be full of things like ったくもう or っるせぇな (maybe). If you can't work them out from context (maybe you don't know the words まったく or うるさい for example) you are welcome to ask here too.


Even aside from slang, if you haven't learned a certain grammatical pattern, you may have problems looking it up in the dictionary. For instance, if you come across しなければならない and don't know what it means, it would be hard to look that up -- you might not even realize that し is a form of する.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Schattenjedi » Wed 11.08.2006 7:59 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
Even aside from slang, if you haven't learned a certain grammatical pattern, you may have problems looking it up in the dictionary. For instance, if you come across しなければならない and don't know what it means, it would be hard to look that up -- you might not even realize that し is a form of する.


That's why one should finish reading their textbook before attempting real Japanese. :|
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 11.08.2006 8:08 pm

Indeed. I definitely think that you should include authentic material as early as you can, but I don't think "as early as you can" is going to be before you've even completed a beginner-level textbook.
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby Ichigo19 » Fri 11.10.2006 9:10 am

thanks Schattenjedi those links really helped.

what are easy manga or other readers that are good for beginners starting to read? What are examples of 4-panel manga? I'm not a big manga junkie so i don't know all that much about the stuff. ありがとうございます、みなさん
私がいちごです。女じゃありません。いちごの名前がアニメの名前じゃありません。
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RE: what did you all use?

Postby paul_b » Fri 11.10.2006 9:31 am

Ichigo19 wrote:
thanks Schattenjedi those links really helped.

what are easy manga or other readers that are good for beginners starting to read? What are examples of 4-panel manga? I'm not a big manga junkie so i don't know all that much about the stuff. ありがとうございます、みなさん


http://www.otchy.com/wcrank/original/day050.html
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