Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Enter: noob >.< (hello)

New members may introduce themselves in this forum

Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby littlegreen » Sun 05.25.2014 12:41 pm

こんにちは
konnichiwa
hello

well i'm new here hence introduction.
i'm mid 20's female from the UK
I started learning Japanese about a month ago and so far (to my surprise) so good. been pretty enjoyable and found a few nice apps that ease me in nicely.
Thought i'd join this forum to help me keep focus and for practice and tips.
I don't want to do too much too soon then get frustrated when I cant remember things. But Idon't want to lose motivation.

Anyway, enough about me, i'm sure you'll find out plenty in time o^_^o

Tell me about yourselves.
How long have you been learning Japanese or are (i guess some of you are) native?
Where are you from?

よろしく おねがい します
Yorushiku onegai shimasu
i look forward to working with you
littlegreen
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 05.24.2014 5:47 pm
Native language: English

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Dustin » Mon 05.26.2014 5:15 am

TJPへようこそ!

よろしくおねがいします!

I am 28, married, 2 kids, and from Canada.

I First started to learn Japanese about 5 1/2 years ago for a few months, but between a big move, and needing to find new work and having young kids, Japanese was set aside.

3 years ago I attempted to pick it back up, but was simply still too busy especially with rehabbing from a nasty accident!

I finally picked my books back up 3 months ago and I'm hoping to keep up with it this time, if nothing else gets in my way!


頑張ってください!
User avatar
Dustin
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun 07.13.2008 9:41 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby littlegreen » Mon 05.26.2014 4:04 pm

ありがとう (for the reply) o^_^o

wow that's dedication, and you seem to have a pretty good grasp of the language i've only been on this forum a few days but i see your name popping up everywhere :)

what tips do you have for someone learning, especially for someone who wont be exposed to the language first hand?

what inspired you to learn Japanese originally?

That last phrase you wrote 頑張 ってください translates to "good look/ all the best" the first 2 characters are kanji right, i'm only covering hiragana at the moment, i could write the same phrase in all hiragana it would be "がんばってください " - is that correct? what i want to understand though is how do you know when to use kanji over hiragana. i heard somewhere about characters having meanings. i'm kinda at the stage where its a big black hole lol can't i just use hiragana forever XD
littlegreen
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 05.24.2014 5:47 pm
Native language: English

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Dustin » Mon 05.26.2014 6:25 pm

""がんばってください " - is that correct?"

Yes, that's right, and although it's a fairly set phrase, here is some of the grammar behind it.

頑張る 「がんばる」  is the plain form for "to persevere" "to keep at it". 頑張ります 「がんばります」 is the polite form.

て-form is used for requests 頑張って 「がんばって」 telling someone to persevere of work hard.

This can be used for a variety of verbs to make request such as stop やめて show me みせて open (a window etc.) あけて

ください at the end is pretty well the equivalent of "please do for me" and makes the phrase more polite.



"what i want to understand though is how do you know when to use kanji over hiragana."

Mostly from experience and exposure to the language. If you don't know the kanji, feel free to write in hiragana, but kanji ill make writing a bit more clear in general, easier to tell the words from grammar, scan the words etc. Materials aimed at younger children will use a lot of kana since they don't know kanji yet, but can speak fairly well.

Kanji can also give us some context missing from straight kana.

eg. 「はし」 could mean 橋 bridge or 箸 chopsticks. ( to be fair, in most situations, you could probably tell which was being discussed )

Also 見る 「みる」 is to see/to watch where AND 観る 「みる」 is also to see/to watch but is generally used for watching something like a movie or a show, sports, something that really grabs your attention.

What's important is that as you learn vocab, you will learn words that are kana only, and you will learn words that utilize kanji, and through learning them and exposure, you will know whether a word is generally written in kanji or kana.


"i heard somewhere about characters having meanings. i'm kinda at the stage where its a big black hole lol can't i just use hiragana forever"

Many of the kanji have a meaning attached to them which relates to the vocab they are used in, how they were formed etc. but many times a compound ( a work with multiple kanji ) may use kanji simply for phonetic purposes rather than because of a common meaning on the kanji. A kanji may also have multiple meanings tied to it based on the different words it is used to form.

It seems like a lot, but take small steps, and you'll make progress before you know it.
User avatar
Dustin
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun 07.13.2008 9:41 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Dustin » Mon 05.26.2014 6:26 pm

I hope that wasn't too much information ^^

And while I may have a decent grasp on some of the basics, I still have a long way to go :p
User avatar
Dustin
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun 07.13.2008 9:41 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Inkinsarto » Tue 05.27.2014 12:29 pm

I would highly recommend discovering patterns within words and the uses for them. I can't necessarily explain this, although, with time you will discover many of these.

It is also useful to enhance your idea of imagery in order to memorize new words.

Most importantly, make sure you WANT to learn the language. That kind of motivation can help you pursue the goal of mastering the Japanese much quicker than you think.
I have been studying for nearly two years now, but I hope this still helps in your efforts to learn.

どうぞよろしくおねがいします。
日本語が分かりませんので、もちを食べます!
User avatar
Inkinsarto
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri 04.04.2014 8:31 am
Native language: 英語

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby littlegreen » Fri 06.06.2014 5:10 pm

こんばんは
konbanwa
good evening

sorry haven't been around much you know how hectic life can be!

thanks for the replies i'm taking on board the recommendations and it's great to hear others experiences of learning.

even though I havent been active n here i've been practicing/learning some hiragana every day.
i now know the 46 basic characters, the one's with ten ten & the ones with maru. Just started combinations today.

at the moment i'm using an andriod app called TenguGo kana which i'm finding really great - anyone else used it?
i also am working from textbook 1 of the yes japan! series as I was lent it from someone, again opinions?

my next question is about sentence structure/word order.
i've noticed from being on here phrases such as "welcome to tjp" would be written "tjp welcome to" TJPへようこそ!
so what about things like "hi everyone" would that then be "minasan konnichiwa" みなさん こんにちは (also konnichiwa is defined as good morning & hello depending on where i look, is this correct? )
i suck at identifying subject topic verb adj etc in english sentences lol pretty such we only covered it at school briefly most of school english was studing novels and writing essays and i guess if you know a language you skip overs stuff.

ありがとう
littlegreen
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 05.24.2014 5:47 pm
Native language: English

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Dustin » Fri 06.06.2014 6:09 pm

littlegreen wrote:
at the moment i'm using an andriod app called TenguGo kana which i'm finding really great - anyone else used it?
i also am working from textbook 1 of the yes japan! series as I was lent it from someone, again opinions?


I haven't used either, sorry :p

littlegreen wrote:my next question is about sentence structure/word order.
i've noticed from being on here phrases such as "welcome to tjp" would be written "tjp welcome to" TJPへようこそ!
so what about things like "hi everyone" would that then be "minasan konnichiwa" みなさん こんにちは (also konnichiwa is defined as good morning & hello depending on where i look, is this correct? )
i suck at identifying subject topic verb adj etc in english sentences lol pretty such we only covered it at school briefly most of school english was studing novels and writing essays and i guess if you know a language you skip overs stuff.


こんにちは is better translated as good day or good afternoon ( ish )

おはよう / おはようございます is closer to good morning, but more literally is something like "it's early" and generally gets used until mid morning, say 10 or so, then こんにちは takes over.
User avatar
Dustin
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun 07.13.2008 9:41 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby littlegreen » Fri 06.06.2014 6:20 pm

sorry my bad yeah ohayou is good morning, konnichiwa is good afternoon.
but i read konnichiwa is used to mean hello as well, is that correct? in english i could say good morning OR hello before noon and both would be correct, but can I say konnichiwa before noon and it would mean "hello" or would it be like saying "good afternoon" but it'd be morning & therefore incorrect?
littlegreen
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 05.24.2014 5:47 pm
Native language: English

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Dustin » Fri 06.06.2014 11:39 pm

While it seems awkward to use こんにちは instead of おはよう in the morning, I'm not sure if it's technically incorrect, someone else would have to chime in that knows better :p

The translations really are more rough and tell us what time of day it tends to be used rather than literal translations.
User avatar
Dustin
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun 07.13.2008 9:41 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby littlegreen » Sat 06.07.2014 7:37 am

hmmm i'm not sure...
what i mean is in English I can use time specific phrases such as good morning/afternoon/evening to greet somone but i can also use (and i'd probably say I more commonly use) "hello/hi" to greet someone which doesn't take into account the time of day therefore can be used at anytime.

so is there a "hi/hello" greeting phrase in Japanese I can use that isn't time specific?
littlegreen
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 05.24.2014 5:47 pm
Native language: English

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Dustin » Sat 06.07.2014 8:01 pm

There are other more casual greetings that can be used at any time such as よ or おす, but these are just to be used among friends.

Other than that I'm not aware of any formal greetings that are used all day regardless of time, though I will ask a native friend of mine next time we speak.
User avatar
Dustin
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun 07.13.2008 9:41 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby littlegreen » Sat 06.14.2014 12:19 pm

ありがとう

yay i finished learning all the hiragana's this week including the combinations & combinations with diacritics.
time to move onto katakana

any tips? still a bit weary over kanji, it seems to be everywhere lol.
i keep reading that it's best to learn hiragana, katakana then move onto kanji but i'm not convinced since as i said everywhere i look i see kanji characters & then i'm stuggling to understand what it means.
it terms of the language is it weighted in favour of hiragana since that is japanese origin but katakana & kanji are borrowed? why does it seem like kanji is everywhere!!?

stumbled onto this site: http://www.japanese-language.aiyori.org/kanji-have.html anyone used it? does it look useful?
littlegreen
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat 05.24.2014 5:47 pm
Native language: English

Re: Enter: noob >.< (hello)

Postby Dustin » Sun 06.15.2014 2:24 am

Katakana is not only FAR FAR easier to learn than kanji, but it's also used very frequently, mostly for "loan words", but as I said there are many.

How the character sets are broken up is as follows.

Hiragana: used to phonetically spell a word. Furigana ( kana above and beside kanji compounds to show pronunciation ) will generally be in hiragana, all grammar is in hiragana, some words appear primarily as hiragana either to disambiguate them, or because the kanji are too uncommon/difficult themselves.

Katakana: used for foreign loan words, tv, spoon, fork, radio, class, taxi, restaurant, pen, bag etc. are just a few that come to mind, there are many more. These are very common to find, and are readable only if you know katakana. Generally they just turn the original sound and alter the pronunciation to fit the japanese phonetic system, but there are a couple combinations you'll only find in katakana. It can also be used to make a word feel harder ( as opposed to hiragana which can make it feel softer ) is commonly used for onomatopoeia, or as italics to really add some emphasis, especially in a visual medium.

Kanji: This is the character set that was borrowed from the chinese and makes up the compounds. Many words and verb stems are made from kanji, and there are several thousand of them, and they can have a few different readings as well. This is the largest, most difficult set to master.

I haven't used that site before, but I do like the programs that use radicals to build kanji and mnemonics to remember them, there are a few of these around

Wani kani: subscription based internet service, teaches kanji and vocab. I know several people using it, and like it. Has a built in spaced repetition flashcard system.

kanji damage: free online service, teaches kanji and vocab using "yo mama" jokes etc. Can be a bit on the cruder side, but I know a few people who have had success with it.

Most controversial: Heisig's Remembering the Kanji: only teaches you how to remember the kanji, write it from memory, and an english keyword, which at times can seem a bit vague. Covers over 2,000 kanji BUT you'd have to learn readings and associated vocab separately, but can move through it faster since you're dividing up the workload.

I did RTK and I liked it, but wouldn't use it without http://kanji.koohii.com/
Online site that has user submitted stories/mnemonics, some are fantastic since the RTK system gets you to make your own, but I find that this worked much better, as others had better imaginations than I did.

Normal method is generally to write it out a whole bunch of times while learning it in vocab, sources for this include Kanji in Context, Kanji Odyssey 2001, the Core 2k/6k decks on anki ( free ) and others.

Hope this helps a little.
User avatar
Dustin
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Sun 07.13.2008 9:41 pm
Native language: English
Gender: Male


Return to Introductions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest