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Time to disillusion the masses.

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Time to disillusion the masses.

Postby Infidel » Sun 12.24.2006 2:22 am

Alright,

First I want to lay a few ground rules for this thread to keep it from going off on the wrong tangent and getting locked. A ask that anyone who posts here and is alerted they are wrong, voluntarily remove their post, or at least edit the comment out.

These are the rules.

1. Authorative references only. This mis-knowledge must originate in some common authorative text, not word-of-mouth. It should be something you believed incorrectly for a period of time before learning the truth. Not something you were told other people believed.

2. Secular references only. A secular reference must be refuted with a secular reference.

3. References are nice. Not necessary, but if you don't have the link, try to explain yourself enough so someone that wants to remonstrate can find the information easier.

4. One point, one post. So double posts and such are ok. Try not to post more than 3 times in a row, even if each point is different.

I'll probably edit these rules as we go. Please look back here before posting anything new.

Rykk



3.
Last edited by Infidel on Sun 12.24.2006 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Time to disillusion the masses.

Postby Infidel » Sun 12.24.2006 2:42 am

A lot of my references will reference medievial weaponry and such, mostly out of personal interest.

1. Swords, especially two-handed-swords were heavy and slow.

- Fact. Swords were not heavy and were well balanced. Scholars referencing two handed swords of greater than 10 pounds were examaning museum or decorative pieces that were not designed for actual battle. http://www.thearma.org/essays/weights.htm

In stories it's not rare to see the author depict a scene where the hero drops his sword and the maiden can barely get the point off the ground when she attempts to pick it up. In reality, the hero's long sword probably only weighs 3 pounds at the most, which wouldn't give the maiden any trouble at all. More importantly. Even if the sword did weigh 20 pounds, it would be well balanced, so getting the point off the ground wouldn't be a problem. Even a two-hander would only weigh a little over 7 pounds, in spite of its size.
Last edited by Infidel on Sun 12.24.2006 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Time to disillusion the masses.

Postby Rounin T » Sun 12.24.2006 2:31 pm

Well, I've been disillusioned.

But once a sword has been picked up, it does take some muscle to properly manipulate, doesn't it?
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RE: Time to disillusion the masses.

Postby paul_b » Sun 12.24.2006 2:53 pm

Rounin T wrote:
Well, I've been disillusioned.

But once a sword has been picked up, it does take some muscle to properly manipulate, doesn't it?

While we're on the subject full plate armour was not as heavy as it's often made out to be on films. They had a nice demonstration on Blue Peter of someone in full plate armour doing a drop 'n' roll and he got up again afterwards without any particular trouble.
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RE: Time to disillusion the masses.

Postby archaeous » Sun 12.24.2006 11:10 pm

Much of the armor myth was because of jousting armor which was 2 times as heavy (roughly) as standard armor.

A suit of well crafted plate armor weighed approximately 30-35 lbs which really isn't that bad. This of course varied by style but as far as I know no style of actual combat gear weighed over 60lbs. There may be some bizzare custom suits out there though.

The chain maile that I am making now is going to be a beast though....
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RE: Time to disillusion the masses.

Postby Infidel » Mon 12.25.2006 12:05 am

But once a sword has been picked up, it does take some muscle to properly manipulate, doesn't it?


All movement takes muscle, but form is the most important factor. You only need to be strong if you want to blast through someone's guard, or pierce their armor, or breaking their weapons. Two handers were used to fight in pike squares by hacking the ends of the pikes off. That would have taken some muscle.

Much of the armor myth was because of jousting armor which was 2 times as heavy (roughly) as standard armor.



It's not the weight, it's the articulation. Yes Jousting armor was heavier, but they had a problem getting up, not because the armor was heavier, but because falling off a horse will wind anyone. It might not sound like that big of a fall, but people routinely died from falling off horses even without armor.

There is actualy someone in my local area that makes reproductions of plate armor. He does cartwheels in it. It's articulated that well. Yes it does weigh a noticable amount, it is distributed so well that it doesn't impede movement.

Funny, I was going to reference it as my number 2 factiod.
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RE: Time to disillusion the masses.

Postby CajunCoder » Mon 12.25.2006 2:05 am

Interesting thread.

While we're on the subject of swords - Classic medieval European swords were not razor sharp, as is commonly misconceived. In fact, most were not that sharp at all, only tapering to the blade and ending with rounded edges. Sharp edges would not hold up to parries, and other such rough features of European combat.
Last edited by CajunCoder on Mon 12.25.2006 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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