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first draft translation

Questions, discussions and translations on Murakami's Yoru no kumozaru

RE: first drafts

Postby Paul De Stefano » Sun 05.07.2006 10:46 am

Rich-san, thanks for catching my misunderstanding of 違いない。Now I see it is bascially the same phrase as 間違いない。That is - "make no mistake."

Keith-san, I think the phrase 金属部分はかなり錆びついてるし、can be parsed as 金属部分 = a noun meaning metal parts; かなり = an adverb meaning rather or fairly; 錆びついてる which is the progressive form of 錆びつく which I take as an intransitive verb which means "to rust" or more literally "rust arrives" or "rust attaches."

I would greatly appreciate feedback from my colleagues so that I keep learning from my mistakes.
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RE: first draft translation

Postby Paul De Stefano » Thu 05.11.2006 9:02 pm

Paul De Stefano wrote:

Consider the case of the musical instrument called a horn. Consider also that there are people whose special vocation is to play this horn. The way things come to be is probably a natural event but when I start to think seriously about them, my mind becomes completely confused like an impenetrable maze.
Why is there a thing such as a horn?
Why did they become horn players and I did not?
I think that one can believe that a profound riddle is contained in the fact that it happens that a given individual becomes a horn player rather than a novelist. If one were to solve this riddle, then the riddle of life and whatever else would yield gently to his understanding. However, at long last, I am probably a novelist because I am not a horn player. Supposing I were a horn player, it would probably appear thoroughly odd that a given individual becomes a novelist.
[quote]
Let’s imagine that a horn player just happens to come across a horn in the deep woods some afternoon. By coincidence they are in the middle of lively chitchat or some such and the horn player talks about how he came to play the horn, occupationally speaking. Just as probably, the horn tells his version of the story from an awfully horn-like point of view. We hear about things like harsh childhoods, complicated family environments, preoccupation about appearances, sexual difficulties and the like.
The horn says, “How things went for the violin or the flute, I don’t have a clue...” poking the ground with a tree branch. “For me, from birth it was all about horn things. You know, I never traveled abroad, I never went skiing...” and so on and so forth. Drawing a close to that afternoon scene, they became a fine inseparable pair. “Flash-Dance” forward they stride stalwartly full upright, hand in hand, making their splendid stage appearance and sounding the opening strains of the Brahm’s Piano Concerto.
That’s the reason why sitting there in my concert hall seat my thoughts abruptly stop. At this point in the depths of another wood, as I lie in wait for another group passing by, I may catch the goings on of a tuba.

I decided to post my complete translation of Horn because I realized that in the latter half of the story the subjects of my sentences differed from my colleagues and so the meaning was somewhat different. Any comments, especially those that point out my errors are greatly appreciated.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby etihwttam » Sun 03.23.2008 2:46 pm

In regards to the earlier post about there being different schools of thought on how translation is done, this is not true. There are good translations and there are poor ones. A good translation must as a matter of course capture the meaning of the source text, but it also must read naturally (if possible, as if it were an English text from the very beginning). No clunky, unnatural expressions are allowed just for the sake of being "correct." The translation has to hit the English reader the same way it hits the Japanese reader. If the source text has an odd or uncommon construction, so should the translation. If the original author is playing with language or being very unique and creative, then the translator has a true challenge to deal with (and must also be creative and resourceful, maybe even making up some new English expressions). In the anthology Monkey Brain Sushi for example, it is basically impossible to tell that a story like Momotaro in a Capsule was originally in Japanese. That's a good translation. That's all there is to it.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 03.23.2008 3:25 pm

etihwttam wrote:In regards to the earlier post about there being different schools of thought on how translation is done, this is not true.


Of course it is. There are entire books devoted to essays on translation theory. You've described your preferred style of translation, and what a "good translation" is to you, but just because you have a certain opinion doesn't mean that's the last word on the subject.

Also HOLY CRAP PEOPLE STOP NECROPOSTING! What is it with the recent spate of necroposts on the board? Do we need a sticky topic?
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Re: first draft translation

Postby Daisuke » Sun 03.23.2008 3:32 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Also HOLY CRAP PEOPLE STOP NECROPOSTING! What is it with the recent spate of necroposts on the board? Do we need a sticky topic?

It sure has happened a lot lately.

I have an idea I will try to talk to Clay about soon.

I will add a note to the rules about necroposting too - maybe it will help just a litte bit.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby AJBryant » Sun 03.23.2008 4:18 pm

Thanks!

I've been wondering about it, too. :)


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Re: first draft translation

Postby chchan45 » Wed 04.02.2008 5:18 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
etihwttam wrote:Also HOLY CRAP PEOPLE STOP NECROPOSTING! What is it with the recent spate of necroposts on the board? Do we need a sticky topic?


I am sorry to say this but I think this is unacceptable language. There are many ways to express one's frustration without resorting to profanities.

I come on this forum to learn, not to hear people attacking and insulting each other.

Please try to respect the rules of this forum.
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

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1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby AJBryant » Wed 04.02.2008 8:34 pm

If you think "holy crap" is profane, you should be inside my brain when someone actually necroposts.

For the record, "holy crap!" was the catchphrase response of the busybody grandfather (played by the late Peter Boyle) in the TV series "Everybody Loves Raymond", that ran from 1996-2005, so it has a very low offense-to-recognition level here in the States.

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Re: first draft translation

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 04.03.2008 10:56 am

I thought as long as someone added something to the post that was beneficial, and etihwttam 's opinion was at least insightful, then a necropost was nothing more than added information.

However, the admins might want to "auto lock" any thread that had lingered 4months (or whatever time fram you deem necessary to become dead) and move it into an archive area where people can still learn from them, but won't be able to add anything to that "dead" post).

Just my opinion on the matter.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby chchan45 » Sun 04.06.2008 7:34 am

AJBryant wrote:If you think "holy crap" is profane, you should be inside my brain when someone actually necroposts.

For the record, "holy crap!" was the catchphrase response of the busybody grandfather (played by the late Peter Boyle) in the TV series "Everybody Loves Raymond", that ran from 1996-2005, so it has a very low offense-to-recognition level here in the States.


Sir, I bow my head to your superior knowledge of American comedy. Sadly I do not live in the USA or watch American TV (most members of this forum must do that).

May I ask, is "crap" a word you would normally use in front of my grandmother (rule #1 of the forum)? I would not, and that is why I made the original post.

Do rules here run on the Animal-Farm logic of "bad words are not allowed, except if they are the catchphrases of a famous TV series"?

The Royle Family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Royle_Family) contains a lot of bad language too. Could I have expletives in my post too, claiming that they are catchphrases from that series?
Reading 李香蘭 私の半生

Please note that:
1. English is not my first language.
2. I am not Japanese. I am prone to making mistakes so please point them out if you see any.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby ss » Sun 04.06.2008 9:57 am

Relax, Chuchan-san.
You probably need to stay away from the pc for a while.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby Oni » Wed 04.09.2008 11:19 pm

As much as I hate keeping the thread alive...

A few things...
1) I would say "crap" in front of my grandmother. My family gets along well.
2) The rules of the forums are more like guide lines. They exist to help us get along. :)
3) If you think something doesn't belong on the forums, take it up with an admin or mod. Don't deal with it yourself.
4) "Everyone loves Raymand" is a great comedy and AJBryant is a genius for recognizing it.
5) We're not rule-Nazis. So be nice or I'll add a rule saying you're not allowed post your bad opinions.
6) Stop reviving old posts...it's annoying.
7) is a lucky number so I'll stop here.

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Re: first draft translation

Postby Gundaetiapo » Thu 04.10.2008 8:44 pm

Necroposts should be welcomed, and without the usual subsequent reply pointing it out.
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Re: first draft translation

Postby chikara » Thu 04.10.2008 9:42 pm

chchan45 wrote:Sir, I bow my head to your superior knowledge of American comedy. Sadly I do not live in the USA or watch American TV (most members of this forum must do that)....

I'm not sure you have anything to be sad about. The series "Everybody Loves Raymond" shows on free to air TV in this country and I have managed to avoid seeing even one episode. I have only ever seen one episode of "Seinfeld" and that was on a 14.5 hour trans-Pacific flight back in the days before individual seat back in-flight entertainment. I was not inspired to rush out and by the DVD boxed set :|

chchan45 wrote:..... May I ask, is "crap" a word you would normally use in front of my grandmother (rule #1 of the forum)? I would not, and that is why I made the original post.....

I received a belting for saying the word "crap" in front of my mother about 40 years ago and maybe that has psychologically scared me as I won't use it on forums. I am however not offended if other posters choose to use it. :)

Necroposters will be prosecuted :twisted:
Don't complain to me that people kick you when you're down. It's your own fault for lying there
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Re: first draft translation

Postby Daisuke » Fri 04.11.2008 5:42 am

Gundaetiapo wrote:Necroposts should be welcomed, and without the usual subsequent reply pointing it out.

As long as the necromancer follows this rule there should be no problems with it...
1.5: Old threads can and should only be revived if the post benefits the community (Posts like "oh, thanks. lol. I see." etc... aren't beneficial). So unless your post is bringing up important information, or asking for better clarification, then we request you refrain from posting in old threads.
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