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English help

英語を勉強している方のためのフォーラムです。練習のために英語の文章を投稿してもかまわなく、英語の文法・語彙に関する質問をしてもけっこうです。

RE: English help

Postby keatonatron » Wed 04.26.2006 11:18 am

Also, "a Japanese" helps to clarify that they are talking about a person and not a thing or language. If she had just said "As Japanese I..." it would sound like she was claiming to be the Japanese language :o
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RE: English help

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 04.26.2006 12:00 pm

Mukade wrote:
As an American, I'd have to say that Coco's original post sounds just fine to me.

I mean, if I had to say 'as a Japanese person,' would I also have to say 'as an American person' or 'as a Kiwi person?' :|


yeah, unfortunately with english there is a lot of redundant uses of words.. the phrase I, as a Japanese,..... is perfectly fine, it just sounds odd because the majority of english speakers can't speak correctly.. lol.. In English we don't get the use of markers to determine how to count things.. so the word nihonjin - japanese in this case.. seems pretty logical to me..
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RE: English help

Postby Phurdonk » Wed 04.26.2006 6:55 pm

He is American --> He is an American.
He is Greek. --> He's a Greek.
He is Russian. --> He's a Russian.
He is Chinese. --> He's a Chinese. (Heck, beats the old traditional "Chinaman")

That still doesn't sound right. I'm pretty sure that most of us wouldn't say "He's a Chinese", we'd probably say "He's Chinese". The same goes for Greek and Russian.

I think whenever you're saying what nationality you are, it depends on that nationality how you express it. For instance, I'm from New Zealand so I could say "I'm a New Zealander/I'm a Kiwi". Americans can say "I'm an American" (with or without the "an"). However, "I'm a Japanese/I'm a Chinese" doesn't sound right.
"I'm Japanese/I'm Chinese" sounds better IMO.

I guess its these nit picky things that make English a tought language to learn for non-native speakers.
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RE: English help

Postby Shibakoen » Wed 04.26.2006 7:37 pm

The bottom line is when we hear: "As a Japanese" we often expect another word to follow. For example, "As a Japanese man..." "As a Japanese police officer..." "As a Japanese cross-dresser..." etc.

"I'm Japanese" sounds better than "I'm a Japanese" but in coco's sentence she's not saying "I'm Japanese." "As Japanese" can't be used in that case. "As a Japanese..." makes sense. "As a Japanese woman..." stresses the gender difference. For some ethnicities, adding a noun afterward is necessary. "As a French" is not correct while "As a Frenchman" is. "Japanese" is different because it's a noun as well as an adjective.

Anyway, I think y'all are putting way too much thought into this.
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RE: English help

Postby sarcastic_enigma » Wed 04.26.2006 7:47 pm

As a Japanese lives on an island, they eat alot of fish. (Sounds Weird)


I really don't see anything wrong with this sentence...., well, I kinda see how it could sound strange, but I read it and thought is sounded fine. What exactly is weird about it?
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RE: English help

Postby adam » Wed 04.26.2006 9:06 pm

What coco says is fine and does not sound odd at all. Most people don't know the rules of the own language they speak, and because of that sometimes they think things can sound weird. I'm guilty of it as well sometimes For example, i've heard so many native speakers of english say, "That was the funnest place i've ever been to" or "Baseball is funner than soccer" When both examples are wrong usage.
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RE: English help

Postby SuzuQ » Wed 04.26.2006 9:59 pm

wow this thread is so informative! I'm learning so much from this site :)

Well, how can I say if there are 2 people?
I think I would say "there are 2 Japanese people" but I'm not sure.

"There are 2 Japanese people and 2 American?"
or "there are 2 Japaneses and 2 Americans?"
or "there are 2 of Japanese people and 2 of American people?"
or...?
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RE: English help

Postby richvh » Wed 04.26.2006 10:17 pm

SuzuQ wrote:
wow this thread is so informative! I'm learning so much from this site :)

Well, how can I say if there are 2 people?
I think I would say "there are 2 Japanese people" but I'm not sure.

"There are 2 Japanese people and 2 American?"
or "there are 2 Japaneses and 2 Americans?"
or "there are 2 of Japanese people and 2 of American people?"
or...?

None of those are quite right. Either "There are 2 Japanese people and 2 American people" or "There are 2 Japanese and 2 Americans" would be ok; I prefer the latter.
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RE: English help

Postby coco » Wed 04.26.2006 10:19 pm

Quoted from zen-san's post.
2. A citizen of the United States.

SuzuQさん。
American はpeople 不要なんでしょうね。きっと。
Zen さんがご紹介くださったサイトはとてもおもしろいですよ。
特にチャイナデイリーの"Listen, I'm Chinian, not Chinese".
まだお読みでなければ、是非ご一読を。
このような考え方は日本では一般的に紹介されていないと思います。

日本には国籍と人種を切り離して考える習慣が根付いていませんよね。
「あなたは何人?」と聞いた場合、nationality を即座に答える筈だと考えてしまうのも race=nationality という文化背景があるからだと思います。(厳密には違うものの、日本は単一民族とされることが多いので日本語にその差がなくても不思議はない)
そのあたりの文化の違いもこの問題に大きく影響していると見ています。
この議論、おもしろいですね。^^
Last edited by coco on Wed 04.26.2006 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: English help

Postby SuzuQ » Wed 04.26.2006 10:57 pm

None of those are quite right. Either "There are 2 Japanese people and 2 American people" or "There are 2 Japanese and 2 Americans" would be ok; I prefer the latter.

Thank you, richvh-san!
so, "-an" can be "-ans" but "-ese" cannot be "-eses". I got it :D


coco-san,
チャイナデイリーの記事読みました!音で区別されているのかと思っていたので、an とeseにそんな背景があったなんて驚きです。早く誰かに語りたくてしかたないです(笑)
背景の違いからくる考え方の違いは、本当におもしろいです。幸いここには色々な国の方々がいらっしゃるので、様々な意見をきくことができて、とても勉強になりますね!;)
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RE: English help

Postby Machina Maw » Fri 04.28.2006 7:55 am

Cocoさん。You wrote this (↓) in another thread, so I thought I might bring it here :) and just add some grammatical things.

coco wrote:
...When we use 漢字 for all numbers, we would rather use the Japanese traditional era name.
http://www.thejapanesepage.com/year.htm
This Year 2006 is 平成諸ェ年.
So we write like
平成諸ェ年四月二処齠 OR 2006年4月21日 or 平成18年4月21日.

We hardly use 二千六年四月二処齠? At least I have never seen it before.

Traditional era (like 平成) is used by the Japanese government, on official documents.
Although it depends on the companies, they(=business organizations) would rather use western style (like 2006年) than the traditional era.

Some Japanese who oppose the Emperor system try to avoid using 平成.
-----
oh ! Should I write "some Japanese people" instead of "some Japanese"?
Please teach me in this " English help" thread. (not here)

Thank you. :)


I think in this case "Some Japanese" sounds fine. If you said "Some Japanese people", it wouldn't make much of a difference. They both sound natural. :) I think it's really a matter of personal opinion; but to me it looks correct.
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RE: English help

Postby coco » Fri 04.28.2006 9:07 am

Machina Maw さん。 すごい! ありがとうございます。
would と 定冠詞に大きな問題がありますね^^;

think in this case "Some Japanese" sounds fine. If you said "Some Japanese people", it wouldn't make much of a difference. They both sound natural. :) I think it's really a matter of personal opinion; but to me it looks correct.

なるほど。Japanese が 複数で使われる場合には people がなくても人称名詞として問題はない、と。 となると…。 もう少し、考えてからちょっとまとめてみます。

ご教示、重ねて感謝いたします。参考になりました。 m(__)m
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RE: Japanese national

Postby coco » Tue 05.02.2006 9:26 pm

I really appreciate this thread. I am learning much from here.
Now I want to know the expression
"As a Japanese national, I...".
Is it correct?
If it is even grammatically correct, does it sound natural?

Thanks in advance.
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RE: English help

Postby richvh » Tue 05.02.2006 9:57 pm

It's grammatically correct, but perhaps a bit stiff. "As a Japanese citizen, I..." would be better, I think.
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RE: As a Japanese national, I ...

Postby Paul De Stefano » Tue 05.02.2006 9:58 pm

Coco-san, I believe that your phrase is grammatically correct. In English it sounds somewhat formal. Maybe like the difference in Japanese between わたくし and わたし。

Your phrase would be natural in a speech but in conversation it would sound like you are preparing to make a strong opinion. For example:

As a Japanese national, I have a different perspective on international relations.

Whereas in more causal conversation you might say:

Because I am Japanese, I understand the tea ceremony.

I am sure that other English speakers may have somewhat different opinions.
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