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General questions about all chapters

Translations of chapters from the story by our own richvh

General questions about all chapters

Postby AlephNull » Sun 03.23.2008 12:17 pm

Hello :) I started reading ゆきの物語 a few days ago, have some questions:

In Chapter 6, the 女将 says to ゆき 「いかがなさいましたか」. Does いかがなさいましたか mean
literally: "What are the circumstances (いかが) that brought you here?"
i.e. interpreted: "What brings you here?"

Does the ~ます form narration give it an older (fairy tale, お伽話?) feel? Plus, I don't really know how to explain it, but things like the repeated appearance of 「私はゆきと申します」 and 「幸せを探すために」 give me this fairy tale feel.


It's been enjoyable so far, thanks a lot for story richvh.


EDIT: Came across this in Chapter 10:
「証人達は皆、娘がゆきと名乗ったことを確認しました。狐と山賊の実在は確認できません。しかし、漁師が娘と会った砂浜と商人の野営地との途中に、灰の焚き火と貝が見つけられました。

Does this mean something like "the campfire, which is now ashes"? Or should this be 焚き火の灰 instead, i.e. "the ashes from the campfire"?


EDIT: Another line from Chapter 10:
ゆきは「左様でございますか。殿さま、よくまあ私の祖母をご存知でしたね?」と聞きました。

Does the まあmean something like "Lord, you probably knew my grandmother quite well, didn't you"? (and in a feminine tone?)
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Re: General questions about all chapters

Postby richvh » Sun 03.23.2008 3:11 pm

AlephNull wrote:Hello :) I started reading ゆきの物語 a few days ago, have some questions:

In Chapter 6, the 女将 says to ゆき 「いかがなさいましたか」. Does いかがなさいましたか mean
literally: "What are the circumstances (いかが) that brought you here?"
i.e. interpreted: "What brings you here?"

Basically, it's a real polite "What's up?"

Does the ~ます form narration give it an older (fairy tale, お伽話?) feel? Plus, I don't really know how to explain it, but things like the repeated appearance of 「私はゆきと申します」 and 「幸せを探すために」 give me this fairy tale feel.

Unlike speech, in story telling -masu form gives the most intimate, informal feel... and yes, I was going for a fairy tale feel.


It's been enjoyable so far, thanks a lot for story richvh.


EDIT: Came across this in Chapter 10:
「証人達は皆、娘がゆきと名乗ったことを確認しました。狐と山賊の実在は確認できません。しかし、漁師が娘と会った砂浜と商人の野営地との途中に、灰の焚き火と貝が見つけられました。

Does this mean something like "the campfire, which is now ashes"? Or should this be 焚き火の灰 instead, i.e. "the ashes from the campfire"?


Um... the latter I think. (No one has ever commented on that before...)

EDIT: Another line from Chapter 10:
ゆきは「左様でございますか。殿さま、よくまあ私の祖母をご存知でしたね?」と聞きました。

Does the まあmean something like "Lord, you probably knew my grandmother quite well, didn't you"? (and in a feminine tone?)

I really don't know... it's a phrase that was suggested by a native speaker.
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語
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Re: General questions about all chapters

Postby AlephNull » Mon 03.24.2008 7:09 pm

Thanks. I stopped at Chapter 10 yesterday, just started Chapter 11 today, and suddenly there be ninjas. Wow =D

The head ninja says this to Yuki:
大名の興味がなければ、俺は芸者にするだろう
I'm reading it as "If not for the daimyo's interest (in you), I'd become a geisha", did I parse it wrong? Could it be something like 俺の芸者にさす(させる), "I'll make (you) my geisha" instead? (I'm not sure if this is a proper way to use にさせる though).


Does anyone know of other fairy tale like stories like ゆきの物語? Something of similar grammar difficulty, and fun to read.
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Re: General questions about all chapters

Postby richvh » Mon 03.24.2008 8:38 pm

The head ninja says this to Yuki:
大名の興味がなければ、俺は芸者にするだろう
I'm reading it as "If not for the daimyo's interest (in you), I'd become a geisha", did I parse it wrong? Could it be something like 俺の芸者にさす(させる), "I'll make (you) my geisha" instead? (I'm not sure if this is a proper way to use にさせる though).

I think that should be read as 俺は(お前が)芸者(になること)にするだろう (I'll probably decide on you becoming a geisha; I'm not sure if I should make that explicit or not. This chapter got a grammar check, but I don't think it was reviewed for overall naturalness.
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Re: General questions about all chapters

Postby coco » Mon 03.24.2008 9:47 pm

はじめまして、AlephNullさん。 :)
AlephNull wrote:The head ninja says this to Yuki:
大名の興味がなければ、俺は芸者にするだろう
I'm reading it as "If not for the daimyo's interest (in you), I'd become a geisha", did I parse it wrong? Could it be something like 俺の芸者にさす(させる), "I'll make (you) my geisha" instead? (I'm not sure if this is a proper way to use にさせる though).


「俺芸者にするだろう」は間違いです。
はなから旦那がいるなら芸者にはなりませんし、芸者が旦那を見つけたら身請けされて引退です。芸者に所有格は使えません。
(これは芸者と置屋のシステム上の問題です。)


「俺は(ゆきを)芸者にするつもりだ」

「山田部長は息子を医者にするつもりだ」
と同じ使い方で、「育て上げる」という意味合いが含まれています。
「山田部長は息子を医者にさせるつもりだ」も使われますが、
この場合は息子が医者になるように仕向け、医者になるための勉強をやらせるという意味になり、
「医者になろう」という息子の意志や行為が関与してきます。

この文脈での会話は、ゆきの意向・意志を確認せず、願望を述べているにすぎませんから
「芸者にするつもりだ」の方が自然な表現になります。

〇 俺はあいつを奴隷にするつもりだ。
×  俺はあいつを奴隷にせさるつもりだ。
このように「あいつ」にとって好ましくない状態の場合は、主に「する」が使われます。

よって「俺は(ゆきを)芸者にするだろう」は単独で読めば正しい使い方ですが、
この「するだろう」は本人の面前で、発話者の現時点での意志・願望として使う言葉ではありません。
「俺はお前を芸者にするつもりだ」
あるいは
「俺はお前を置屋に売るつもりだ」
などが自然です。
Last edited by coco on Mon 03.24.2008 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General questions about all chapters

Postby richvh » Mon 03.24.2008 10:29 pm

ココさん、訂正をくださってありがとうございます。<(_ _)>
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