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Quick question...

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Quick question...

Postby mihyaeru » Tue 07.26.2005 11:52 pm

I am doing the 100 kanji and I was wondering the kun reading means what the kanji says in japanese right? But sometimes the kun Hiragana and the romanji for the kanji dont mach, Example


Meanings: word, speech, language, narration, to speak
On Readings: ゴ
Kun Readings: かた(る), かた(らう)
Most Used Pronunciation: go
JLPT Level: 4 (see all JLPT 4 kanji)
Grade: 2 (see all Grade 2 kanji)
Kanji Part: 言 (see all kanji with 言)
Stroke Number: 14 (see all kanji with 14 strokes)

Kata (ru), kata (rau) but romanji says go

Meanings: gold, money
On Readings: キン, コン
Kun Readings: かね, かな
Most Used Pronunciation: kin (gold), kane (money)
JLPT Level: 4 (see all JLPT 4 kanji)
Grade: 1 (see all Grade 1 kanji)
Kanji Part: 金 (see all kanji with 金)
Stroke Number: 8 (see all kanji with 8 strokes)

One of those says Kana and in romanji it sais kin

then on this one

Meanings: book, counter for long, slender objects
On Readings: ホン
Kun Readings: もと
Most Used Pronunciation: hon
JLPT Level: 4 (see all JLPT 4 kanji)
Grade: 1 (see all Grade 1 kanji)
Kanji Part: 木 (see all kanji with 木)
Stroke Number: 5 (see all kanji with 5 strokes)

Kun says moto and romanji says hon,

And then sometimes they match which is right? so just wondering why? Arigato gozimasu.
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RE: Quick question...

Postby CviCvraeVtMoriar » Wed 07.27.2005 1:23 am

Look at the On readings. Notice any similarities between them and the Romaji? Most Kanji have two readings: On (yomi), and Kun (yomi). The On reading is an approximation of the Chinese pronunciation of the character; The Kun reading is the native pronunciation of the word. In addition, many Kanji have several On and Kun readings.

On readings are used mostly in compound words. The On reading has an analogue in the English language; the Japanese On reading's usage in compound words is commensurate and equivalent to our usage usage of Latin and Greek in our compound, scientific, and 'advanced' words. E.G. : (I've listed the sg. and pl. forms for fun! And what fun it is! :))

Malevolent - Male (Latin - Badly) Volens, Volentes (Latin - Wanting);

Pragmatize - Pragma, Pragmata (Greek - Thing);

Stigma - Stigma, Stigmata (Greek - Mark, Brand)

Auspicious, Auspices - Avspex, Avspices (Latin - Augur who predicts future dole and halcyon state via observation of the migratory patterns of birds);

Tedious - Taedivm, Taedia (Latin - Boring time, Boredom)

Hygeine - 'ugieia, 'ugieiai (Greek - Health, Soundness)

Angel - Aggelos, Aggeloi (not a typo. still pronounced angelos)(Greek - Messenger)

Donation - Donvm, Dona (Latin - Gift)

Data - Datvm, Data (Latin - Perfect passive participle of Dare, to give, meaning, "Given," or "Something Given".)

Eulogy - Eu (Greek - Well), Logos, Logoi (Greek - Word, Speech, Story, Language, Account)

Euphemize - Eu (Greek - Well), Phemo (Greek - To Speak)

Eloquent - (Latin - Prepostion E, Ex - From, Out of), Loqvor (Latin - I Speak)

Dictum - Dictvm, Dicta (Latin - Perfect passive participle of Dicere, to say, meaning, "Said," or "Something Said".)

Axiom - Axios, Axioi (Greek - Worthy, Deserving)

Euthanasia - Eu, Thanatos (Greek - Death, Mortal)

Anarchy - An (Greek - Privative 'a'. In this case 'an' because it precedes a vowel), Arche, Archai (Greek - Beginning, rule, office, realm, province)

Apathy - A (Greek - Privative 'a' ), Pathos (Greek - Pity, Suffering)

Before Japan's contact with China, the Japanese had no written language, only a spoken language which was entirely unrelated to the Chinese language, etymologically speaking. When the Chinese came, the Japanese adopted the Chinese writing system. The Chinese characters which they assimilated into their language are now called Kanji. When the Japanese adopted these characters, they had their own words and pronunciations of the ideas and things with which the Kanji were associated (this accounts for the Kun reading). They accorded each character a simulated Chinese reading and a native reading of a meaning corresponding to that of the Kanji.

The discrepancies, which you're seeing, aren't discrepancies at all, but, rather, different readings. If you don't know how to read Katakana, you should learn - as On readings are usually written in Katakana; while the Kun readings are written in Hiragana.

By the way, the Hiragana and Katakana syllabaries were originally Chinese Characters, Kanji, which were being used for their phonetic value only to convey syntax and to simulate foreign words. These were later simplified to the Hiragana and Katakana characters which we know today.
Last edited by CviCvraeVtMoriar on Wed 07.27.2005 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ni di me non pvlchrvm paterentvr, omnia bona agerem. Dixit: Cvr se deos liqvisse? Qvid se faceret? Di se fecissent foediorem qvam qvem canis ipse videre posset. Qvaeram a qvovis, vel diabolo, vt bellvs a se fiam modo ne malam vitam vivam. Dico, si aliter egissent, fvtvrvm fvisse vt bene viverem. - me
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RE: Quick question...

Postby mihyaeru » Wed 07.27.2005 1:49 am

Oh so the Japanese also use the on readings sometimes?

it just seems like the Kun Readings (かた(る), かた(らう)) which is the japanese way to say the Kanji should include the Most Used Pronunciation (go) Which would be ご I'm on lesson three of Katakana so thats why I didnt catch the on readings meaning being so close to the most used Pronunciation yet.

Ps。。。 thats a sweet Advent children Avatar
Last edited by mihyaeru on Wed 07.27.2005 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Quick question...

Postby CviCvraeVtMoriar » Wed 07.27.2005 6:08 am

Oh so the Japanese also use the on readings sometimes?


Yes. They use them very frequently, in fact. They are, for the most part, used in compound words; however, there are exceptions.

Also, sometimes, a single kanji may be pronounced according to one reading or another, depending on the meaning intended:

本 [ホン] - (n,pref) book, main, head, this, our, counter for long cylindrical things.
本 [もと] - (n,n-suf,n-t) (1) origin, original.


it just seems like the Kun Readings (かた(る), かた(らう)) which is the japanese way to say the Kanji should include the Most Used Pronunciation (go) Which would be ご I'm on lesson three of Katakana so thats why I didnt catch the on readings meaning being so close to the most used Pronunciation yet.


Yes. You would think so. Frankly, I think ゴ is 語’s most frequently used pronunciation; so it would seem to me, anyways.

By the way, when you see a pronunciation followed by some characters in quotations marks, you can know that this indicates a verb. E.G. : かたる, and かたらう both mean to recite, tell, talk.

Ps。。。 thats a sweet Advent children Avatar

Isn't it though!?! :D ;) It's nice that someone has finally noticed how kick-ass it is! None of the rubes who apparently have no taste whatsoever, who contribute to these fora, has said anything approbatory or duly complimentary regarding this avatar of mine. B)
Last edited by CviCvraeVtMoriar on Wed 08.03.2005 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_____________________________________
Ni di me non pvlchrvm paterentvr, omnia bona agerem. Dixit: Cvr se deos liqvisse? Qvid se faceret? Di se fecissent foediorem qvam qvem canis ipse videre posset. Qvaeram a qvovis, vel diabolo, vt bellvs a se fiam modo ne malam vitam vivam. Dico, si aliter egissent, fvtvrvm fvisse vt bene viverem. - me
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