Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Attempted [English] Haiku 5-7-5 – Syllable Check Please!

Attempted [English] Haiku 5-7-5 – Syllable Check Please!

Japanese, general discussion on the language

Attempted [English] Haiku 5-7-5 – Syllable Check Please!

Postby celticflower » Fri 06.18.2010 9:08 pm

Hello,

--- I wasn’t sure where to post this, so Moderators, please feel free to move it to the appropriate area if necessary. Thanks!


I tried to write a 5-7-5 syllable English Haiku, but it only works if the syllables for ‘Japanese’ [3] and’ Kana’ [2] are correct for English pronunciation! [See Notes below].

If they're not I wouldn't bother reading any further! :blush: But please do let me know :mrgreen:

I checked the other words at http://www.howmanysyllables.com/words/ as I’m not very good at grammar, it really is like the dreaded maths to me.

It’s a sad fact that it’s not very sophisticated despite my age [38], and any help/comments will be appreciated if you’re bored and feel like saying more than, “you got the syllables wrong!” It’s my own fault for giving in to the urge to post when I could be safely lurking as usual :)


I read the following at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_in_English "This is the genius of haiku using an economy of words to paint a multi-tiered painting, without "telling all". Or as Matsuo Bashō puts it The haiku that reveals seventy to eighty percent of its subject is good. Those that reveal fifty to sixty percent, we never tire of."

I don't think I've managed that, and maybe the use of the word ‘fierce’ is too abstract?

Thought trying to express:
How daunting, yet compelling, the Japanese language can be for the beginner.

Anyway, here it finally is:


Japanese is fierce,
imperial kana are
marching in our eyes.


Notes:
1st line: 3-1-1 = 5 syllables, if 'Japanese' is only 3? I think you ignore the ‘e’ at the end.
2nd line: 4-2-1 = 7 syllables, if 'Kana' counts as 2, I think it does as the second ‘a’ is strongly pronounced.
3rd line: 2-1-1-1 = 5 syllables. I was going to use ‘ears’ at first then changed it to ‘eyes’. I think both would fit. http://www.howmanysyllables.com/howtoco ... ables.html


I read that Haiku often, or should, imply a season; the closest I could get to that was the use of ‘Fierce’. This word brings to mind fire and spiky reds and oranges, which makes me think of Autumn. That’s a bit obscure, I could change the last line to ‘harvesting our eyes’ [3-1-1], but that’s a bit too much like a bad horror movie – could be fun!

I also read, I do that a lot though I don’t always remember things unfortunately, that the haiku should be representative of the writer’s direct experience of something, so that fits too.
http://irishhaiku.webs.com/haikuguidelines.htm

If you managed to get this far after my epic ramble for a 3 line poem, thanks!

Talk to you later,

Clare
。 Bright (ki) 。 クレア
http://citlecrewolf.livejournal.com/
User avatar
celticflower
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun 05.18.2008 7:21 pm
Location: UK
Native language: English
Gender: Female

Re: Attempted [English] Haiku 5-7-5 – Syllable Check Please!

Postby TJack » Sat 06.19.2010 12:09 am

That's a nice Haiku there Celticflower, and don't worry, you got the syllables right!
For getting the number of syllables of a word, I remember a trick from school way back when: clap your hands when you change the sound in a word. I'm having trouble explaining it, but take for instance the word Japanese, it would be Ja-pa-nese (the dashes mark were you would clap). Another word, like another would be A-no-ther.

Another way that's usually fail-proof is to count the number of vowels in the word (or vowel sounds) in a word and that would be the number of syllables. Your forum name has four vowels, so it has four syllables. the word achieve has 4 vowels, but it only has two vowel sounds, an "ah" sound and an "ee" sound, so it has two syllables.

As for your haiku, I like how you paired the word imperial, with marching. I have a mental image of a rank of kanas and kanji marching along with banners and such. I don't really know about the word fierce being in it though, maybe a different adjective would be better? I guess I don't see something imperial as being fierce, maybe imposing, but then that's too many syllables... Daunting is also too many syllables..


I'm not really knowledgeable about Haikus, but I believe that haikus are pretty versatile. I don't believe that there's any strict rules that someone has to follow.
Haikus are more for the feeling they convey, not necessary about any standard convention, I think. But on the topic of writing what the author has experience, I think that's a great rule to follow. Some of the best English haikus I read makes me feel like the writer had first hand experience with the haiku, and by extension, makes me feel like I'm also there experiencing it.

Here's a haiku I whipped up, not really good though he he :whistle:

We start together,
Sharing knowledge to achieve
But some never do
TJack
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed 03.26.2008 4:37 pm
Location: Tennesse
Native language: 英語
Gender: Male

Re: Attempted [English] Haiku 5-7-5 – Syllable Check Please!

Postby celticflower » Sun 06.20.2010 9:05 pm

Hello TJack,

Thank you for reading and commenting on my post, especially for checking the syllables! I have zero confidence when it comes to anything grammar related! *lol*

I went to bed last night wishing I'd left the last word of my haiku as ears yet again, probably because I'm having troubling trying to pronounce ら り る れ ろ at the moment so it sees more fitting :)

Who'd think a 3-line poem could be so much trouble!

Yes, fierce gave me a lot of trouble. I liked the fiery image and thought it might work as I think you write them in 2 parts, despite how short they are, but it's something to try and improve on. I agree that it's not the best match for imperial and marching and I like those bits :)

We start together,
Sharing knowledge to achieve
But some never do


I think it's a great haiku, I feel like the 'some' in the last line a lot of the time, slowly going nowhere! *lol*

Talk to you later,

Clare
。 Bright (ki) 。 クレア
http://citlecrewolf.livejournal.com/
User avatar
celticflower
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun 05.18.2008 7:21 pm
Location: UK
Native language: English
Gender: Female

Re: Attempted [English] Haiku 5-7-5 – Syllable Check Please!

Postby Snowflake » Mon 06.21.2010 12:34 am

It has been years (well, decades, if we're being honest here) since I studied the structural requirements of haiku, but in terms of tone and syllables, it seems like both of you have done quite well. And if I recall correctly, one of the important features of haiku is the ability to evoke emotion and/or imagery within the syllable restrictions, and I think both of you did that!

Thank you both for sharing!
Snowflake
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu 01.24.2008 7:04 pm
Location: New England, USA
Native language: English


Return to Japanese General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests