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日本語の太陽系

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日本語の太陽系

Postby torgosaves » Sun 10.16.2005 6:28 pm

Here's a list of the Japanese names for the planets in our solar system.

太陽系 (たいようけい) The Solar System.

太陽 (たいよう) The Sun
水星 (スイセイ) Mercury
金星 (きんせい) Venus
地球 (ちきゅう) Earth
火星 (かせい) Mars
木星 (もくせい) Jupiter
土星 (どせい) Saturn
天王星 (てんのうせい) Uranus
海王星 (かいおうせい) Neptune
冥王星 (めいおうせい) Pluto

Notice the relation to the days of the week. This is also noticable in the French Language.
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RE: 日本語の太陽系

Postby Infidel » Sun 10.16.2005 8:56 pm

For some reason I've always thought taiyou was just another reading for 日 that I haven't learned yet.
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RE: 日本語の太陽系

Postby torgosaves » Sun 10.16.2005 9:40 pm

No. 太 means fat, thick, or big around. 陽 means many things, such as sunshine; yang principle; positive; male; heaven; daytime. 日 and 太陽 are apparently two different concepts.
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RE: 日本語の太陽系

Postby InsanityRanch » Sun 10.16.2005 10:32 pm

torgosaves wrote:
日 and 太陽 are apparently two different concepts.


Concepts? I dunno. 太陽 definitely refers to the sun as a heavenly body in the astronomical sense. But many common expressions about the sun use 日 -- 日がさす/昇る/がける/沈む… Many of the same verbs can be used with 太陽 as well. <shrug>
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RE: 日本語の太陽系

Postby Spaztick » Tue 10.18.2005 10:46 am

I'm pretty sure 日 refers to the concept of "day" or "daytime" while 太陽 refers to the sun itself.
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RE: 日本語の太陽系

Postby InsanityRanch » Tue 10.18.2005 2:02 pm

Both words are used to refer to the sun as it is visible in the sky. Common expressions:

日/太陽がさす。 The sun shines. (uses either word.)

日/太陽が照る。 Another way to say the sun shines.

日/太陽が昇る。 The sun rises.

日/太陽がかげる。 The sun is covered by clouds.

日/太陽が沈む。 The sun sets.

Both words are used to refer to sunshine.

日がよく当たる部屋 a sunny room

まぶしい日光/太陽 dazzling sun(light)

日 (but not 太陽?) is used to refer to sunburn. (日焼け/日に焼ける)

Yes, 日 also refers to time, and 太陽 does not. But both refer to the physical sun, and in fact both are used in the most common expressions about the physical sun.

HTH!

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RE: 日本語の太陽系

Postby Mukade » Thu 10.20.2005 11:56 pm

torgosaves wrote:
Here's a list of the Japanese names for the planets in our solar system.

太陽系 (たいようけい) The Solar System.

太陽 (たいよう) The Sun
水星 (スイセイ) Mercury
金星 (きんせい) Venus
地球 (ちきゅう) Earth
火星 (かせい) Mars
木星 (もくせい) Jupiter
土星 (どせい) Saturn
天王星 (てんのうせい) Uranus
海王星 (かいおうせい) Neptune
冥王星 (めいおうせい) Pluto

Notice the relation to the days of the week. This is also noticable in the French Language.


Not only is there the relation between the days of the week and the planets in Japanese and French (they are dead-on), but Uranus (the Greek father of the gods and god of the sky) is 天王星 in Japanese - i.e., "King of the Sky Star."

Neptune (god of the ocean) is 海王星 - "King of the Ocean Star."

Pluto (god of the underworld) is 冥王星 - "King of Darkness Star."

This gets me to wondering...did the Japanese just not have names for the planets before Europeans (from whom they obviously got the names) came to Japan? Can this be possible?!?

This is hard to believe, considering the extensive (and often highly accurate) nature of Chinese astronomy.

Does this bother no one but me?!? :@
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RE: 日本語の太陽系

Postby InsanityRanch » Fri 10.21.2005 9:11 am

I don't know much about this, but we did read an article about Japanese astronomy once. (in Japanese... I could scrounge around an see if I still have the Xerox we read from and thus find the place it came from on the web if you want.) It seems the Japanese borrowed Chinese systems (primarily for fortune telling) several times and there were competing "astronomical" schools in Japan for centuries before the first Europeans arrived. And already in (iirc) the ninth or tenth century one of those schools had got ahold of Ptolomeic (sp?) views of cycles, epicycles, etc. and was selling itself on its ability to predict eclipses. Apparently Ptolemeic astronomy had made its way through the Islamic empire to China and then to Japan by that period.

I believe there was an earlier six-day Buddhist week that was superimposed (in a confusing way, at least to me) on the short and long months. I know that figuring out the beginning and end of months, which should be short and which long, etc. was the job of a major department of the Heian-era government. The same department also fixed auspicious days for various ceremonies.

The Japanese seem to have had an abiding pragmatism. I read at least one professor of Japanese history (whose stuff is on the web) who said that they originally adopted Buddhism as a set of magical techniques to allow the Imperial House to rule more efficiently. It was only later, in the Heian period, when Buddhism was transformed into a method of achieving personal, er... salvation (?) that it became a popular religion.

As for the Chinese -- I have looked before for information on Chinese astronomy before the Europeans. (Though I didn't know back then that Ptolemy had made his way into Chinese thought at such a relatively early date, compared to the arrival of actual Europeans.) It is hard to be sure, but it seems as if the names of the five visible planets in Chinese might precede European influence. But the attaching of those planets' names to days is certainly due to European influence and the adoption of a seven-day week.

I know the above is rambling but... hope it helps.

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