Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Autumn Leaves?

Autumn Leaves?

Japanese, general discussion on the language

Autumn Leaves?

Postby roomwithamoose » Tue 10.18.2005 4:53 pm

Hello All,

Today my friend said to me, how do you say leaf in Japanese. I had no idea so I looked online, and came across all of these:

葉 - は - leaf
子葉 - しよう - cotyledon; seed leaf
葉芽 - ようが - leaf bud
葉身 - ようしん - leaf blade
落葉 - らくよう - fallen leaves; leaf litter, defoliation, shedding leaves
落ち葉 - おちば - fallen leaves; leaf litter, defoliation, shedding leaves

So I'm just trying to figure out which one to use on which occasion, being of the fact that there are two that mean fallen leaves. Whats the difference? Also, it said that 落葉 was a "vs", apparently that means if you add する it becomes the verb for the falling of leaves. Which would you use for the leaves on the tree? 葉 or 葉身? Thanks so much everyone, a really awesome website that has all these kanji and even a stroke diagram for every one is here http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html. I also found this one just for these leaf words, http://www.slt.atr.co.jp/~night/yomiyasui/getall.cgi?word=%CD%D5.
roomwithamoose
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu 09.01.2005 10:33 pm

RE: Autumn Leaves?

Postby InsanityRanch » Tue 10.18.2005 7:02 pm

What you need is a dictionary with good reibun! <g> Here's what I find when I look up "leaf" in mine:

1(一枚の)葉(は)
---- the leaves of the trees
木々の葉
---- dead leaves
枯れ葉 


come into leaf
(木が)葉を出す
The tree is in full leaf
その木は今青葉が繁っている


Then there is a section explaining the difference in the English words leaf, foliage, blade, and needle. I can write it down if you want.

For 落ち葉:

落ち葉を掃く
Rake up fallen leaves

道は落ち葉に埋っていた
The road was buried under fallen leaves.

For 落葉:

そろそろ落葉の季節だ
Leaves will be falling from the trees before long.

落葉樹
a deciduous tree

This dictionary does not say it can be used as a suru verb, which doesn't mean it can't. (I could check the kokugo, which is always the final word.) But it is not a common usage, or there would be a reibun.

HTH!

Shira
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
InsanityRanch
 
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue 04.19.2005 2:17 pm

RE: Autumn Leaves?

Postby Mukade » Tue 10.18.2005 9:02 pm

Usually, when referring to a leaf in general, you will say 葉っぱ.

あっ、奇麗な葉っぱですね。
Ah, what a pretty leaf!
User avatar
Mukade
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri 02.18.2005 3:30 am
Location: Osaka
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: Autumn Leaves?

Postby InsanityRanch » Wed 10.19.2005 8:29 am

Thanks, Mukude! A new word for me, and a good one!

The funny part is, I went to look up 葉っぱ. Not in my J-E, so I go to the kokugo, where it says: 葉. And nothing else!

My Japanese teacher is out of town for a couple of weeks, but shen she comes back I'm going to ask her about the use of 葉っぱ vs 葉.

Shira
"Give me a fruitful error any time, full of seeds, bursting with its own corrections. You can keep your sterile truth for yourself." -- Vilfredo Pareto
InsanityRanch
 
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue 04.19.2005 2:17 pm

RE: Autumn Leaves?

Postby Mukade » Wed 10.19.2005 11:52 pm

I've never looked it up myself; this is just what I always hear everyone using.

After reading your post, though, I checked Breen - it was in the JDIC. The thing is, I then checked Yahoo! Japan and Excite! Japan, and neither of their dictionaries had it.

Even more unusual is the fact that, if you type はっぱ in hiragana on the computer or on a cell phone, 葉っぱ comes up as one of the possible kanji replacements.

But then, it wasn't in my paper dictionary, either.

This is very curious, and requires more investigation, methinks...
User avatar
Mukade
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri 02.18.2005 3:30 am
Location: Osaka
Native language: English
Gender: Male

RE: Autumn Leaves?

Postby mandolin » Thu 10.20.2005 4:03 am

If I look up "leaf" in my J-lookup program, I get both 葉 and 葉っぱ.

Even wierder, is that J-lookup uses Breen's EDICT dictionary... so the fact that it's not online anywhere is confusing.

I'd like to know what you find out, Mukade. :)
User avatar
mandolin
 
Posts: 497
Joined: Mon 06.20.2005 3:44 am

RE: Autumn Leaves?

Postby Mukade » Thu 10.20.2005 11:49 pm

As it turns out, 葉っぱ is a child's word for leaf, like the English word "horsie" for "horse."

This would make sense, since a lot of Japanese kid's words rely on a doubling of the original word. Thus, you get:

Crawl - 這う becomes ハイハイ
Hand - 手 becomes お手て
Sleep - 寝る becomes 寝ね

So here, "leaf," 葉 gets doubled and becomes 葉っぱ.

The thing is, I know I've heard adults using this word before. Over and over, in fact. And I don't think it's because they were talking to a child at the time.

I'm going to continue to inquire and see if I can't get to the bottom of this. :@
User avatar
Mukade
 
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri 02.18.2005 3:30 am
Location: Osaka
Native language: English
Gender: Male


Return to Japanese General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests