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Important points when writing in Japanese

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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby keatonatron » Wed 12.03.2008 8:44 am

adonis0418 wrote:I have got some other problems, when talking with Japanese guys, sometimes they use "は-" with descending tone instead of "はい".


This is informal. It's fine with friends, but with superiors or people you want (need) to be polite to, you should stick with a well-pronounced はい, or an ええ if you feel more lazy.

similarly, some people say ねい instead of ない. Is this simply a dialect?

No, it's slang, like "ain't" in English. Another thing that will get you slapped if you use it when talking to superiors.
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby two_heads_talking » Wed 12.03.2008 9:58 am

keatonatron wrote:
similarly, some people say ねい instead of ない. Is this simply a dialect?

No, it's slang, like "ain't" in English. Another thing that will get you slapped if you use it when talking to superiors.


unless your boss/superior is a yakuza.. ermm.... yeah what Keatonatron said...
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby furrykef » Wed 12.03.2008 7:26 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:I heard some of the male middle school students use it with their friends, but that's it.


On the other side of that coin, I read once of somebody who used that word -- I think it was that word -- jokingly with a friend, and his friend was confused: "What? I don't want to fight you!" Although friends often use insulting terms to each other, that sort of humor doesn't always translate across languages...

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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby adonis0418 » Wed 12.03.2008 10:30 pm

unless your boss/superior is a yakuza.. ermm.... yeah what Keatonatron said...


I see, since it is used in Yakuza society, it would be quite rude...I dont wanna get slapped, haha.
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby adonis0418 » Wed 12.03.2008 10:34 pm

No, it's slang, like "ain't" in English. Another thing that will get you slapped if you use it when talking to superiors.

If I had a Japanese boss, I would be extremely careful since they attached a great importance to the hierarchy system. Thank you for your reminding LOL
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby keatonatron » Thu 12.04.2008 3:54 am

furrykef wrote:I read once of somebody who used that word -- I think it was that word -- jokingly with a friend, and his friend was confused: "What? I don't want to fight you!"


Yeah, that was me.

Wow, my posts are finally making it into the annals of history, being remembered simply as "I read once of somebody who..."

However that time, the word was てめえ (手前). I think my friend was simply asking me (in English) what new words I have learned, and in response I simply said the word. It was met with the exact answer you quoted above.

貴様 is much worse though. :?
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby Sairana » Thu 12.04.2008 4:55 am

adonis0418 wrote:I see, since it is used in Yakuza society, it would be quite rude...


That's an interesting conclusion to draw. It's just plain rude, not -because- it's used by Yakuza. The tongue-in-cheek comment was merely a 'ha ha, if your boss is Yakuza he wouldn't care ha ha".
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby furrykef » Thu 12.04.2008 8:16 am

keatonatron wrote:Wow, my posts are finally making it into the annals of history, being remembered simply as "I read once of somebody who..."


Well, I'm never good at remembering who said what (unless it's something a particular person is likely to say... or if somebody disagrees with something I said, there's probably a 50% chance it's Yudan Taiteki ;)).

I actually thought I read it on a different forum. It could have been an independent occurrence. Or maybe my memory is just fuzzy as a bunny who has been through a trip in the dryer. :mrgreen:

EDIT: I did a quick search on a hunch and found where I'd originally read it. It was one of Keaton's posts on the wiki.

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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby two_heads_talking » Thu 12.04.2008 9:46 am

Sairana wrote:
adonis0418 wrote:I see, since it is used in Yakuza society, it would be quite rude...


That's an interesting conclusion to draw. It's just plain rude, not -because- it's used by Yakuza. The tongue-in-cheek comment was merely a 'ha ha, if your boss is Yakuza he wouldn't care ha ha".


Exactly.. it would be considered less rude in that society, but none-the-less, it's better to not use it than try to figure out when it would appropriate to use it.
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby Seiko » Mon 09.27.2010 2:32 am

Sumimasen,

I believe the proper way of saying Tony is..

Tony-kun

Kun is usually for boys

San is usually for girls

Just thought I'd let you know, Tony-kun.

Gomen nasai.

Yoi ichinichi o!
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby chikara » Mon 09.27.2010 7:59 am

Seiko wrote:.... I believe the proper way of saying Tony is..

Tony-kun

Kun is usually for boys

San is usually for girls

......

冗談ですね。 :think:

05 Dec 2008 --------> 27 Sep 2010 :shock:
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby furrykef » Mon 09.27.2010 11:14 am

Seiko wrote:I believe the proper way of saying Tony is..

Tony-kun

Kun is usually for boys

San is usually for girls

"San" is for people you don't necessarily know well, regardless of gender, or somebody to whom you wish to express a certain level of formality/politeness. Tony (assuming we mean AJBryant) definitely seems like a "-san" to me. Most people here are either newbies who don't know Tony well, or they're old regulars who see him as something of a father figure; "-san" works in both cases.

"Kun" is generally applied to boys or men, but "-kun is used with men" does not imply the converse, that you should you should address men as "-kun". (Compare: all cats are animals, but not all animals are cats.)


chikara wrote:05 Dec 2008 --------> 27 Sep 2010 :shock:

This is a sticky thread, so necroposting isn't a concern. Strange that it'd go so long without posts, though.

I think Seiko is referring to Sachi's post from Apr 9, 2006 (since there's no "Tony-san" mentioned on this page of the thread), making it an even later response... :lol:
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby chikara » Mon 09.27.2010 9:08 pm

furrykef wrote:..... or they're old regulars who see him as something of a father figure; "-san" works in both cases. .....

As Tony-san is younger than me I look up to him for his experience and knowledge, not as a father figure. 8)

furrykef wrote:
chikara wrote:05 Dec 2008 --------> 27 Sep 2010 :shock:

This is a sticky thread, so necroposting isn't a concern. Strange that it'd go so long without posts, though.

I think Seiko is referring to Sachi's post from Apr 9, 2006 (since there's no "Tony-san" mentioned on this page of the thread), making it an even later response... :lol:

You did better than me as I read back a number of posts but couldn't work out which post Seiko-san was actually responding to. Despite the thread being a sticky in my opinion the post falls into the;

"... unless your post is bringing up important information, or asking for better clarification, then we request you refrain from posting in old threads. .."

category.

So despite being a sticky this thread has been dormant for almost two years because no one has had anything important to add. :)
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby keatonatron » Sat 10.09.2010 2:21 pm

I'm glad to see I'm still causing a ruckus, even from "beyond the grave".
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Re: Important points when writing in Japanese

Postby maboroshi638 » Mon 11.07.2011 11:37 am

Thank you for this thread. It is very interesting.

I think that learning the different politeness levels is particularly difficult for native English speakers as the English language does not really differenciate between polite and casual speech when compared to other languages.

But as this forum shows it is not impossible to learn. I think once you get your head around it, it actually makes a lot of sense and you start to understand why it upsets people when you use the incorrect form of politeness.

I get upset aswell when people do the same in my native language. My native language also has different levels of politeness. And I fully understand Japanese people when they get upset when a total stranger speaks to them in a casual way. It sounds very disrespectfully and you have the feeling that the other person is looking down on you.
And it is equally upsetting when a close friend or even a family member speaks to you in a polite manner rather than a casual one. You then have the feeling they are distancing themselves from you.
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