Important points when writing in Japanese

[zengargoyle]

i've made a start at putting information from this thread into the wiki, take a look [wiki]Writing and Conversation Points[/wiki].

it's a bit haphazard, i just took interesting parts from the posts in this thread and added them to the page. feel free to give it a touchup.

[chikara]

keatonatron wrote:
Here are some important things to keep in mind when writing Japanese on this forum. This is a mental list I have compiled while reading people's posts and Japanese practice.

Point one: Kanji

Do not greet everyone with "今日は".

I obviously hadn't read this thread before my first post on these forums yesterday as I started my post with that exact Kanji.

I am interested to read that this should not be used as the reason I use it is that my Japanese teacher, a 日本人, starts her emails this way. I admit that the first time I saw 「今日は」 I thought "as for today".

[Infidel]

teachers trying to familiarize their students with kanji will do that until the kanji become familiar, then they usually tell the students to stop it later on.

[ss]

Coco-san wrote
It's very hard to explain ( at least for me ).
It must be "unreasonable/absurd/incongruous/etc." enough for you (even for me), but it is. Also not so many people try to tell you about these very important/ delicate topics, I think. Therefore I believe this thread is very important.

Related threads might be
Usage of 二人称の人代？
絶対におかしい
Bored Japanese Ranting ^_^
Feminine and Masculine Japanese
礼節の問題
Politeness levels
Related articles by clay-san.
The Various Degrees of Politeness
I, me, you, thou...

Everyone appreciates politeness. A smile, a few friendly words, a show of concern, an offer of help - gestures of kindness like these brighten our days.

Just as we appreciate other people being polite to us, others appreciate it when we are polite to them. That's why it is important to learn to be polite, because it will help make our relationships and interactions with others more satisfying and free from problems.

But it is not always easy to be polite and respectful. Somtimes we are caught up in our work and responsibilities, being polite and kind are the last thing we feel like doing. Tjp is such an awesome place as we, not only learning the languages, but manners. Practising politeness is like playing the piano : the more you practise, the better you become.

May this thread help to bring us peace and joy as we learn .......

[paul_b]

Nobody seems to have mentioned みんなさん yet. You wouldn't believe the number of times I see that used but it should really be みな, みんな or みなさん.

[AJBryant]

Nobody seems to have mentioned みんなさん yet. You wouldn't believe the number of times I see that used but it should really be みな, みんな or みなさん.

I've corrected a few people in the past with that one. I don't know why, but みんなさん/minna-san is one of my buttons...

Tony

[keatonatron]

That was someone's sig in the old forum. I guess I hadn't noticed it enough here to think to include it.

[two_heads_talking]

AJBryant wrote:

Nobody seems to have mentioned みんなさん yet. You wouldn't believe the number of times I see that used but it should really be みな, みんな or みなさん.

I've corrected a few people in the past with that one. I don't know why, but みんなさん/minna-san is one of my buttons...

Tony

of course if your last name is minna it works perfectly.. (evil grin)

[paul_b]

AJBryant wrote:
I don't know why, but みんなさん/minna-san is one of my buttons...

I think the reason it bugs me is that it (and probably romanji) is one of those things that people learning Japanese have been "teaching" each other. I get the feeling that if you don't nip it in the bud there'll be another generation growing up to use it. :-/

[AJBryant]

Agreed, Paul. That's one of the inherent dangers of peer-teaching.


Tony

[Super S aka Satomi]

thats what it translates out to... today...

[Jon13]

Well i found this thread both very interesting and in a sense a little horrifying.
Interesting because it's given me a good idea of just how important politeness in the language is as well as how deep a pool i've jumped in trying to learn it.

What does worry me is how easy it would be to offend people. Despite being an absolute beginner i'd love to post more and even spend some time in the chat room to both practise and speak to other people learning the same language. After reading this thread though i'll always have the worry of offending someone out of my ignorance of the language. Though i know it'll probably become less of a problem as i learn more.

But in the mean time is there anything i can do to avoid sounding like an Ass/idiot when i start using japanese to speak to others?

[tanuki]

Don't worry too much at the beginning. If you want to start using Japanese right away with "real people", I suggest you take the "masu-path". That is, find books/resources that start by teaching you the masu (i.e. polite) forms of the verbs. They will also tell you which pronouns to use and other things to not sound impolite. That way, you probably won't offend people even if you try.

Oh, and don't use people as guinea pigs. For example: "Today I learned 貴様. I wonder how will someone react if I say it to them?" .

[keatonatron]

AJBryant wrote:
Agreed, Paul. That's one of the inherent dangers of peer-teaching.

I think we need to start a new thread about all the crazy crap we've heard about Japan from someone who's "friend's cousin went there and said it was like that".

It really bothers me to see the people who don't know much anything teaching the people who really don't know anything. I shudder whenever I see some comment in the shoutbox similar to "minasan and minnasan are the same, the second one is just more polite".

Jon13,
If you start every conversation with "I am a beginner, please feel free to fix my mistakes" then you shouldn't offend anyone

[AJBryant]

What I really love is American actors (I'm thinking Tom [ack, ptui] Cruise, in particular) who spends a couple of months in Japan making a movie, and all of a sudden is an incredible expert on the country, customs, and so on. I love watching these morons on talk shows.



Tony