Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - Women using 僕

Women using 僕

Japanese, general discussion on the language

Women using 僕

Postby tanuki » Tue 05.02.2006 5:01 pm

Hello, people!

I was listening to a song by Ayumi Hamasaki (No more words) and I noticed that she uses 僕 to refer to herself and 僕達 for the plural. I found this quite weird, because I knew that that word is usually used by men. (And she also uses some not very femenine phrases, in my opinion, like 僕は君に何を伝えられるだろう)

So, I was wondering......why? Hehe, I mean, I would guess that women using "male" speech would be considered tomboyish, is that right? That doesn't seem to fit her, though...
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。
User avatar
tanuki
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: Women using 僕

Postby aoisatomi » Tue 05.02.2006 5:17 pm

i know what you mean tanuki-san. I too found that when listening to Ayumi. I also noticed that the singer in DAI does that too. I think maybe it's just that it sounds better with the song?

Like...watashi wa anata ni nani o tsutaerareru deshou
vs. boku wa kimi ni nani o tsutaerareru darou....

boku, kimi, and darou probably sound "better" and fit "better"

after all, this is a song and not necessarilly "speaking"
User avatar
aoisatomi
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun 04.09.2006 1:35 am

RE: Women using 僕

Postby PandanoTake » Tue 05.02.2006 9:35 pm

it depends on the point of view. Like, who is telling the story. Also, it may have been a quote. I'll go look the lyrics up now and get back to you.

------------
EDIT
------------

You'll have to find the lyrics for me.
Last edited by PandanoTake on Tue 05.02.2006 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
エド より
PandanoTake
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed 11.16.2005 9:35 pm

RE: Women using 僕

Postby tanuki » Tue 05.02.2006 10:13 pm

PandanoTake wrote:
You'll have to find the lyrics for me.


Oh, yes, I'm sorry about not posting the lyrics before, but I was on the run when I began this thread.

You can find them here: http://cherryblossom-garden.com/2/hamasakiayumi4.html (search for "no more words").
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。
User avatar
tanuki
 
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: Women using 僕

Postby PandanoTake » Tue 05.02.2006 10:16 pm

It's the point of view the song is sung from.
エド より
PandanoTake
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed 11.16.2005 9:35 pm

RE: Women using 僕

Postby Oyaji » Tue 05.02.2006 10:23 pm

PandanoTake is correct; those songs are being sung from the male's point of view. It may be that the song was written by a male, or it is a remake of a song originally sung by a male, and they just left the words as is. Male usage also makes the song more powerful, and obviously Ayumi's songs are quite powerful.

The only time a female would actually use boku in real life is if an adult woman were talking to a small boy, in which case it would be used as "you." Example:「ぼく、大丈夫?』(Boku daijobu?) "Are you alright?"
User avatar
Oyaji
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Sun 04.30.2006 9:57 pm

RE: Women using 僕

Postby PandanoTake » Tue 05.02.2006 10:29 pm

...okay so:

a woman could make a song and mean that she is singing it or it is a remake of another song. However, a woman can make a song and sing it with male speech which would mean that the song's point of view is a man's. Another reason for "僕" is to enhance the power of the song. In this case it's one of those. However, seeing as how watashi is not used once, I would think it is from the male's perspective.
エド より
PandanoTake
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed 11.16.2005 9:35 pm

RE: Women using 僕

Postby Oyaji » Tue 05.02.2006 10:47 pm

Exactly. It looks like this song was written by a male.

Also, being male speech is what makes the song more powerful, not merely the word 僕. (I'm sure you understood that, but I just wanted to clarify.)
User avatar
Oyaji
 
Posts: 1334
Joined: Sun 04.30.2006 9:57 pm

RE: Women using 僕

Postby Apollo » Tue 05.02.2006 10:53 pm

That's weird. Lol I just discovered Ayumi Hamasaki not to long ago, how odd lol.
MY SIG IMAGE WAS OVER 100 PIXELS HIGH AND THE ADMINS SMOTE IT WITH A HAMMER OF SMITING.
User avatar
Apollo
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu 09.22.2005 12:31 pm

RE: Women using 僕

Postby Kinzokusei no Inu » Wed 05.03.2006 12:43 am

I hear female singers using 僕 and 僕達 all the time in their lyrics. It is extremely common; not unusual at all. I remember when I first started with Japanese study, the books I was using would state that 僕 is mainly used in men's speech, but the same resources also would say that women do occasionally use it and more and more so in recent times. It is probably much more noticeably prominant in music though. ie. I haven't noticed any girls using it in forums and the like or in speech, but could be. Usually it's 私、or あたし、or they refer to themselves in the 3rd person. (another common thing you see in girl's talk)

Personally, I think 僕 is used a lot in music because it sounds quite euphonious in a lyrical phrase. (In my opinion anyway)
今を生きろ!
User avatar
Kinzokusei no Inu
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue 04.11.2006 7:55 am

RE: Women using 僕

Postby PandanoTake » Wed 05.03.2006 12:50 am

basically what has already been said covers it
エド より
PandanoTake
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed 11.16.2005 9:35 pm

RE: Women using 僕

Postby Kinzokusei no Inu » Wed 05.03.2006 1:04 am

Not really. Which is why I added to thread. Got it? Good!
今を生きろ!
User avatar
Kinzokusei no Inu
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue 04.11.2006 7:55 am

RE: Women using 僕

Postby coco » Wed 05.03.2006 9:10 pm

狸さん。こんにちは。おもしろい 質問ですね〜〜 :D
It happens not only Hamasaki's case but many cases.
A main character of poem/lyrics are not singer(poet) her/himself.
sometimes 男性演歌singers sing woman's sentimental-broken heart songs.

For example
http://listen.jp/store/album_cocp33370.htm
click 「13 心のこり」 → 試聴 ♪♪→ 聴く。( free )
the speaker(=main character) of this lyrics are supposed woman. ( plus little possibility of man --who talks like a woman"). In this song あ(わ)たし is used for "first person".
http://url removed .

But we( at least me) don't think this 男性演歌singer had got a gender change operation.:D:D

hope this helps.:)
Last edited by coco on Sun 05.07.2006 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coco
 
Posts: 3061
Joined: Mon 05.30.2005 12:43 am
Location: 東京都
Native language: 日本語(Japanese)

RE: Women using 僕

Postby hamsterfreak4evr » Wed 05.03.2006 10:17 pm

Kinzokusei no Inu wrote:
I haven't noticed any girls using it in forums and the like or in speech, but could be. Usually it's 私、or あたし、or they refer to themselves in the 3rd person. (another common thing you see in girl's talk)


really? somehow that sounds weird to me...lol...probably because it sounds so bizzare in english. is that common?
User avatar
hamsterfreak4evr
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sun 07.17.2005 8:21 pm
Location: America
Native language: english
Gender: Female

RE: Women using 僕

Postby PandanoTake » Wed 05.03.2006 10:44 pm

Generally third person is used when trying to be polite, or restating the other person's saying of you're name.

"Watashi no? Edo no?"
"Edo no"

Third person is used to be polite and is very common amongst native Japanese speakers.
エド より
PandanoTake
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed 11.16.2005 9:35 pm

Next

Return to Japanese General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests