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WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

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WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby paul_b » Wed 11.22.2006 12:58 pm

I'm looking for volunteers to help in indexing words in the (modified) Tanaka Corpus aka WWWJDIC example sentences.

A reasonable level of Japanese required (if you can translate 時間の余裕がなかったので、彼女はタクシーに乗った。without looking anything up then you probably count ;-)

You would be given example sentences like the following

新規にスタートしたテレビ番組だが、あいも変わらず新味がないな。
The new season's T.V. programs are as much old hat as ever.
新規 に スタート 為る(する){した} テレビ 番組 だ が {あいも} 変わる{変わらず} 新味 {がないな}
。 、 x

The format is as follows.
・Japanese line
・English line
・Keywords line
・No Index line

The keyword line has the following format.
KEYWORD(KANA)[SENSE]{ACTUAL}
Keyword = Word as can be found in WWWJDIC
Kana = Reading of keyword if, and only if, required to distinguish it from a different Edict entry. (e.g. 為る(する) vs 為る(なる))
Actual = The exact matching text from the Japanese line

Within the Keywords line would be bits with only ACTUAL match (e.g. {がないな} in the above example).

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, would be to change them into proper entries. Including changing existing keywords if they have been mis-indexed.

e.g.
新規 に スタート 為る(する){した} テレビ 番組 だ が {あいも} 変わる{変わらず} 新味 {がないな}
新規 に スタート 為る(する){した} テレビ 番組 だ が 相も変わらず{あいも変わらず} 新味 が 無い{ない} な[1]

I can't offer any rewards for this but it does make interesting practice IMO.
Last edited by paul_b on Sat 01.27.2007 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: さえ

Postby Kale » Wed 11.29.2006 10:46 pm

This one's got me confused mostly cause I don't fully grasp さえ and the English is definately wrong but I'm sure what I'm thinking is wrong as well. It's all about the nuances.

Before:
And if you leave me.
きみさえ行ってくれれば。
君(きみ){きみ} {さえ} 行く{行って} {くれれば}

After:
If just you could go for me.
きみさえ行ってくれれば。
君(きみ){きみ} さえ 行く{行って} 呉れる{くれれば}
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby keatonatron » Thu 11.30.2006 12:33 am

That's a pretty horrible sentence, because the much-needed context is missing.

It would be something like:

"If at least you go...."

If at least I go what?
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby kohyin » Thu 11.30.2006 1:37 am

I wish I could help. But my English is not good enough to understand the English sentence...

きみ さえ 行ってくれれば is equivalent to せめて、きみ だけでも いってくれれば
It is hard to determine what the phrase attempts to convey without its ending.

きみ さえ 行ってくれれば 万事 うまくいった のに。
せめて きみだけでも 行ってくれれば 万事 うまくいったのに。
Things would have gone well if at least you went there (but, you didn't and no one else did. Hence, things didn't go well).

Am I close?
Last edited by kohyin on Thu 11.30.2006 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby paul_b » Thu 11.30.2006 1:58 am

Kale wrote:
This one's got me confused mostly cause I don't fully grasp さえ and the English is definately wrong but I'm sure what I'm thinking is wrong as well. It's all about the nuances.

Before:
And if you leave me.
きみさえ行ってくれれば。
君(きみ){きみ} {さえ} 行く{行って} {くれれば}

After:
If just you could go for me.
きみさえ行ってくれれば。
君(きみ){きみ} さえ 行く{行って} 呉れる{くれれば}


Basically

"As long as you [do me the favour of going for me/] go (it's OK)."

The [ ] bit we wouldn't generally actually say in English so should be dropped. the () bit is implied by the Japanese but isn't so obvious in the English and might be best included.

Incidentally I need to know about any changes made to the English or Japanese sentences (posts here would be fine).
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby kohyin » Thu 11.30.2006 3:07 am

Paul,

You have a great project going. I wish I could help but my English is such that I don't believe I would be of any help to your project. I believe your project will help Japanese who are learning English as well.

I'd try my best to give my personal input nevertheless.

Keep up with your great work!
Wishing you a happy holiday seasons.
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RE: Changes

Postby Kale » Thu 11.30.2006 3:30 am

Ahhh.. as I said before the English is (sometimes) so bad in the Courpus I can't help myself but to fix it. I'll try to put any changes in this thread, but I wouldn't get super picky about the translations (as long as the english is correct and the meaning is correct) because I think it would slow the work down. Well anyways here you go:

Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor Prophet?
キリストでもなく、エリヤでもなく、またあの預言者でもないなら、なぜ、あなたはバプテスマを授けているのですか

Why then do you baptize if you are not Christ, nor Elijah, nor a prophet?

***

That she will get over her illness soon is certain.
きっと彼女の病気はすぐによくなるであろう。

Certainly she should get over her illness soon.

***

I met Bernard by chance at a restaurant yesterday.
きのうある料理店で、私は突然、バーナードにあった。

I unexpectedly met Bernard at a restaurant yesterday.

by chance is more like 偶然

***

I had to attend two meetings yesterday, and there was no time to have lunch between.
きのう二つの会に出席しなければならなかったが、その間に昼食をとる暇がなかった。

I had to attend two meetings yesterday, but there was no time to have lunch between.

This one is a little moot

***

Your idea cannot be brand new. I heard about it from another source last year.
きみのアイデアは新しいとはいえない。私は去年、それを別の筋からきいた。

I can’t say your idea is a new one. I heard about it from another source last year.

Too literal?

***

I will put a mark against any error in your writing.
きみの作文のまちがっているところにしるしをつけてあげよう。

I’ll put a mark for you where there are errors in your writing.

***

I hope you feel too.
きみもゾクゾクきてるかい?

Are you getting shivers too?

Doesn't really explain what sort of ぞくぞく, so I thought best to be vague.

***

Ahhh! Feel that wonderful cold beer seep into every fiber of my being. Yep nothing beats a cold one after work.
くーっ、ビールが五臓六腑にしみわたる。やっぱり仕事の後はビールだね。

Ahhh. Feel that beer seep into every fiber of my being. Yep nothing beats a cold one after work.

A little over the top / not really directly translated.

***

A nail penetrated the car tyre.
くぎが車のタイヤに刺さった。

A nail penetrated the car tire.

***

Let's draw lots to decide who goes first.
くじを引いて順番を決めよう。

Let's draw lots to decide the order.

In order to unconfuse with: くじを引いて誰が最初か決めよう。

***


If my fix is "good enough" please leave it be so I can keep moving forward. :) Otherwise, feel free to help. Thanks!
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RE: Subject for deletion

Postby Kale » Thu 11.30.2006 3:36 am

There are about 7 variations of this sentance with or without を and having different kana variants,

Let's decide the winner by lot.
くじでだれが勝ったかをきめよう。

I suggest they all get deleted but one with the most standard kanji and particle use.

くじで誰か勝ったかを決めよう。 would be my suggestion, but I think kanji are easier to read the kana so what do I know.
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RE: Lead me to your door

Postby Kale » Thu 11.30.2006 3:41 am

Lead me to your door.
きみの住む家の扉へと。
君(きみ){きみ} 乃[1]{の} 住む 家(いえ) 乃[1]{の} 扉 へ {と}
。 x

Lead me to your door.
きみの扉へとどうか導いておくれ。
君(きみ){きみ} 乃[1]{の} 扉 へ {とどうか} 導く{導いて} 御{お} 呉れる{くれ}
。 x

I don't understand this phrase 扉へと well enough to translate let alone code up for the courpus.

***

This one just strikes me as strange (both the Japanese and the English)

I strike a nail home.
くぎを頭まで打ち込む。

I strike the nail home? I sink the nail down to the head?
Make it a sentance fragment: Strike a nail home?
:(????? If this was a J-Rap lyric I think I could understand.
Last edited by Kale on Thu 11.30.2006 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby paul_b » Thu 11.30.2006 6:36 am

Kale wrote:
Ahhh.. as I said before the English is (sometimes) so bad in the Courpus I can't help myself but to fix it. I'll try to put any changes in this thread, but I wouldn't get super picky about the translations (as long as the english is correct and the meaning is correct) because I think it would slow the work down. Well anyways here you go:

Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor Prophet?
キリストでもなく、エリヤでもなく、またあの預言者でもないなら、なぜ、あなたはバプテスマを授けているのですか

Why then do you baptize if you are not Christ, nor Elijah, nor a prophet?


To be blunt the original English is better than yours for this sentence, which is one of the reasons I need to see any changes made. "the Christ" and similar are commonly used when referring to Jesus in the bible itself.

That she will get over her illness soon is certain.
きっと彼女の病気はすぐによくなるであろう。

Certainly she should get over her illness soon.


The original is stilted, but I think I prefer ...

"I'm sure she'll get over her illness soon."

I met Bernard by chance at a restaurant yesterday.
きのうある料理店で、私は突然、バーナードにあった。

I unexpectedly met Bernard at a restaurant yesterday.


by chance is more like 偶然[/quote]

"I happened upon Bernard at a restaurant yesterday."

I had to attend two meetings yesterday, and there was no time to have lunch between.
きのう二つの会に出席しなければならなかったが、その間に昼食をとる暇がなかった。

I had to attend two meetings yesterday, but there was no time to have lunch between.


"and" works better for "が" in that sentence.

Your idea cannot be brand new. I heard about it from another source last year.
きみのアイデアは新しいとはいえない。私は去年、それを別の筋からきいた。

I can’t say your idea is a new one. I heard about it from another source last year.

Too literal?


Possibly. I think if you were going to change it then it would be "You can't say ..."


I will put a mark against any error in your writing.
きみの作文のまちがっているところにしるしをつけてあげよう。

I’ll put a mark for you where there are errors in your writing.


"I'll mark where there are mistakes in your writing."


I hope you feel too.
きみもゾクゾクきてるかい?

Are you getting shivers too?


Your zokuzoku-fu is weak. I had to go a bit on the 意訳 side but it's more like

"Is this getting you going too?"

Ahhh! Feel that wonderful cold beer seep into every fiber of my being. Yep nothing beats a cold one after work.
くーっ、ビールが五臓六腑にしみわたる。やっぱり仕事の後はビールだね。

Ahhh. Feel that beer seep into every fiber of my being. Yep nothing beats a cold one after work.

A little over the top / not really directly translated.


Agreed, it was a bit much.

A nail penetrated the car tyre.
くぎが車のタイヤに刺さった。

A nail penetrated the car tire.


British spelling doesn't count as a mistake.

Let's draw lots to decide who goes first.
くじを引いて順番を決めよう。

Let's draw lots to decide the order.

In order to unconfuse with: くじを引いて誰が最初か決めよう。


微妙。If anything I'd say that くじを引いて誰が最初か決めよう。 is an overly literal translation of the English.
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby paul_b » Thu 11.30.2006 7:06 am

Kale wrote:
There are about 7 variations of this sentance with or without を and having different kana variants,

Let's decide the winner by lot.
くじでだれが勝ったかをきめよう。

I suggest they all get deleted but one with the most standard kanji and particle use.

くじで誰か勝ったかを決めよう。 would be my suggestion, but I think kanji are easier to read the kana so what do I know.


Wouldn't 誰ったか be "decide whether somebody has won"
Surely 誰が勝つか is the obvious choice.
Last edited by paul_b on Thu 11.30.2006 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby paul_b » Thu 11.30.2006 7:13 am

Kale wrote:
Lead me to your door.
きみの住む家の扉へと。
君(きみ){きみ} 乃[1]{の} 住む 家(いえ) 乃[1]{の} 扉 へ {と}
。 x

Lead me to your door.
きみの扉へとどうか導いておくれ。
君(きみ){きみ} 乃[1]{の} 扉 へ {とどうか} 導く{導いて} 御{お} 呉れる{くれ}
。 x

I don't understand this phrase 扉へと well enough to translate let alone code up for the courpus.


{と}= と
{とどうか}= と どうか

However it's a moot point as "Lead me to your door." is a line of lyrics from the Beatles and lines that are (odd) lyrics are deleted.

This one just strikes me as strange (both the Japanese and the English)

I strike a nail home.
くぎを頭まで打ち込む。

I strike the nail home? I sink the nail down to the head?
Make it a sentance fragment: Strike a nail home?
:(????? If this was a J-Rap lyric I think I could understand.


It looks like it's been copied out of a dictionary and altered a bit.

http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?p=home%2 ... &dname=1ss

As it's intended to explain an _English_ phrase and isn't that natural Japanese I think it should just be deleted.
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby paul_b » Thu 11.30.2006 7:29 am

kohyin wrote:
You have a great project going. I wish I could help but my English is such that I don't believe I would be of any help to your project. I believe your project will help Japanese who are learning English as well.

I'd try my best to give my personal input nevertheless.


I think your English skill is plenty good enough to be of use but you could work on completing the indexing of example records in Japanese without having to use English at all. If you have the time and the interest let me know.
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Thu 11.30.2006 9:17 am

As Paul said, you can see here:
http://bible.cc/john/1-25.htm
All of the translation listed on that page (I also checked the RSV and NRSV myself) have "the Christ" rather than just "Christ". "nor Prophet", though, should be changed to "nor the Prophet".
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RE: WWWJDIC Examples: Volunteers sought!

Postby paul_b » Thu 11.30.2006 9:28 am

Yudan Taiteki wrote:
As Paul said, you can see here:
http://bible.cc/john/1-25.htm
All of the translation listed on that page (I also checked the RSV and NRSV myself) have "the Christ" rather than just "Christ". "nor Prophet", though, should be changed to "nor the Prophet".


Good point about the Prophet.
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