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おれ

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おれ

Postby katafei » Mon 05.21.2007 2:31 pm

Well, it was touched on in an earlier thread, but I can't seem to find it. Search for おれ and I will get an index of 62 pages. Only.... I can't see any of them....

I'm definitely getting old...

Which brings me to my question.
Apparently using おれ has certain rules. Now I've been watching several movies en doramas of all kinds lately, and おれ seams to hit my ears all the time!
(BTW, that joke only works in Dutch, but I think it's funny anyway^_^)

So, please, if anyone can tell me anything about the use of おれ, I would be very grateful. I'd especially value the opinion of young Japanese people. I'm not sure if there are any on this forum, but I'm sure there are others who are in touch with Japanese youth?

I've gathered from this and other forums, there seems to be a gap in usage of language between age groups.

(Didn't Dylan write about this?
Yep, he did)

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RE: おれ

Postby tsumeshogi » Mon 05.21.2007 2:35 pm

There were some relevant posts in this thread.
Unfortunately I don't have as much time to learn Japanese as I would like, and therefore I am rather inactive on this forum. Yet I have learnt so much just by reading the "Recent Posts" page every once in a while. I respect those who have taken the time to write up explanations to help others, especially those who have written in a language which is not their native language.
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RE: おれ

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Mon 05.21.2007 4:14 pm

おれ is a difficult word to use correctly. It projects a certain type of image and carries certain nuances that can be difficult for a language learner to pick up and emulate, and it's a "dangerous" word in that it can be taken as very rude and blunt if used incorrectly.

My recommendation is to avoid it completely unless you're sure it's OK to use. If you have any doubt about whether it's appropriate or not, go with 私 instead.

As for the movies, I can watch American movies and hear the word "fuck" constantly but that's still a word I have to be careful about using.
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RE: おれ

Postby katafei » Mon 05.21.2007 5:22 pm

tsumeshogi wrote:
There were some relevant posts in this thread.


That was a very interesting thread, thanks.


Yudan Taiteki wrote:
おれ is a difficult word to use correctly. ーーー
My recommendation is to avoid it completely unless you're sure it's OK to use. If you have any doubt about whether it's appropriate or not, go with 私 instead.

As for the movies, I can watch American movies and hear the word "fuck" constantly but that's still a word I have to be careful about using.


I have to say, it's a relieve to hear that ;)
I won't be using おれ, since I'm female, but I do want to learn about all these details.

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RE: おれ

Postby Paragon » Mon 05.21.2007 6:53 pm

I noticed that in Heroes (TV show on NBC with two Japanese characters)--Ando tends to use おれ and おまえ when speaking with Hiro. I get that they're good buddies, but his tone and personality seems like 僕 would make more sense.
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RE: おれ

Postby Oracle » Mon 05.21.2007 7:16 pm

Paragon wrote:
I noticed that in Heroes (TV show on NBC with two Japanese characters)--Ando tends to use おれ and おまえ when speaking with Hiro. I get that they're good buddies, but his tone and personality seems like 僕 would make more sense.


I think I've noticed him using 俺 and 僕 at different times. I would take the Japanese in Heros with a grain of salt though - the script the two Japanese guys are following sounds very much like something translated from English. for one thing they use pronouns much more often than in natural Japanese. the script would be written very differently if the show was targeted at a native Japanese audience.
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RE: おれ

Postby Mike Cash » Tue 05.22.2007 8:18 am

The issue of if/when to use おれ is second only to "Is the word 'gaijin' racist?" as a source of gaijin angst and teeth-gnashing, and also ranks second as the most overly and pointlessly discussed topic. It ranks first on offerings of un(der)informed regurgitations of secondhand opinions and "My textbook says...." and "My Japanese girlfriend says...." type blather.
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RE: おれ

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 05.22.2007 8:31 am

Oracle wrote:
Paragon wrote:
I noticed that in Heroes (TV show on NBC with two Japanese characters)--Ando tends to use おれ and おまえ when speaking with Hiro. I get that they're good buddies, but his tone and personality seems like 僕 would make more sense.


I think I've noticed him using 俺 and 僕 at different times. I would take the Japanese in Heros with a grain of salt though - the script the two Japanese guys are following sounds very much like something translated from English. for one thing they use pronouns much more often than in natural Japanese. the script would be written very differently if the show was targeted at a native Japanese audience.


Not to me it doesn't. Masi Oka is a native Japanese speaker in any case.
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RE: おれ

Postby AJBryant » Tue 05.22.2007 11:09 am

Not to me it doesn't. Masi Oka is a native Japanese speaker in any case.


Irrelevant.

Have you never seen the miniseries Shogun? The Japanese actors spout pidgin Japanese all the time, as per the script. My favorite is the scene lifted right from the book where Fujiko threatens to shoot Omi if he moves toward her, and she says "Ugokanaide. Dozo" -- which, while in English "Don't move, please" makes sense, in Japanese that can only mean "Don't move, please move."


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RE: おれ

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 05.22.2007 1:10 pm

I suppose that's true, but in the case of Heroes I don't believe the Japanese is unnatural. It's rarely a literal translation of the English subtitles they give; in some cases the meanings were different.
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RE: おれ

Postby keatonatron » Tue 05.22.2007 8:29 pm

Maybe they made the Japanese lines in Heroes a bit longer on purpose (excessive pronouns) to fit the length of the English subtitles.

If they used more natural Japanese, either there wouldn't be much time to read the English, or people would think "how can they say all that with one word? It must be fake!"
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RE: おれ

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 05.22.2007 8:35 pm

IMO there are not excessive numbers of pronouns. Hiro uses personal pronouns a lot when he's making statements like "This is something that I have to do" where he emphasizes himself.
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RE: おれ

Postby AJBryant » Tue 05.22.2007 9:26 pm

I suppose that's true, but in the case of Heroes I don't believe the Japanese is unnatural. It's rarely a literal translation of the English subtitles they give; in some cases the meanings were different.


Possible.

Unfortunately, I'm totally out of it in discussions of Hero -- I haven't been able to watch it. Tried once or twice, but... sigh. I'll probably rediscover it a few years after it's off the air and go crazy for it like I did for Buffy and Angel. Damn.


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RE: おれ

Postby HeyItsMatt » Tue 05.22.2007 9:40 pm

AJBryant wrote:
I suppose that's true, but in the case of Heroes I don't believe the Japanese is unnatural. It's rarely a literal translation of the English subtitles they give; in some cases the meanings were different.


Possible.

Unfortunately, I'm totally out of it in discussions of Hero -- I haven't been able to watch it. Tried once or twice, but... sigh. I'll probably rediscover it a few years after it's off the air and go crazy for it like I did for Buffy and Angel. Damn.


Tony


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RE: おれ

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 05.22.2007 9:41 pm

After last night's finale, I don't recommend it. Lost is a far better show IMO, but I wouldn't recommend that either until it ends in 2010.

Buffy was great :)
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