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Teen japan fans

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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby AkiKaza-chan » Tue 08.07.2007 5:18 pm

I had this happen at a class I was taking on Saturdays, from 10:00 to 12:00. There were 10 classes, and about 7 or so students. One guy had a heart problem, so he couldn't come back. One lady, well, I dunno what happened to her. One boy dropped out, and another girl's mom wouldn't let her continue. When it was these four turns to speak in class, there was always an awkwad silence, because a man, a woman and I were really good and we got through our questions quickly. In the end, sensei's manager wouldn't let her take a class with only 3 students, so we either take private lessons or go to another class until we can meet up with our original sensei again. The lady and I are taking private classes (her's on thursdays, mine on Saturdays from 9:00 to 10:00) and I progressed much faster on my own. We got through about 2-4 lessons a week and I've started on the second book, much earlier than what I would have done had I been in a group class.

(OH, and on a smally-unrelated topic, my sister has insisted on kicking me off of her computer for the third time today, telling me I "needed" to leave so she can watch the english dubbed version of Sailor Moon. She won't stop going on about it...'s kinda annoying really ;))
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby Shinigami » Tue 08.07.2007 6:43 pm

Personally I became interested in Japanese as a language through both anime/manga and visiting Japan (I stayed a few days in Tokyo when I was 9 and loved it). However, despite the fact I would probably say I am quite an obsessive fan of Naruto, I think that anime/manga culture can be detached as a sub-culture of other Japanese culture. In other words, yes, I love the Naruto world, but unlike some others I know that it doesn't mean Japan/Japanese culture is actually like that, and I try to see anime/manga for what it is rather than purely a depiction of Japanese culture. That's not to say mangas and animes don't have some aspects of traditional Japanese culture within them; they do; but they aren't meant to be an idealistic view of Japan.

I've only been teaching myself Japanese for a few weeks, but I prefer not to tell some people because 1. they'd think I was only 'going through a phase' and would drop it soon, and 2. would think I'm only interested in Japan because of anime/manga, and really, I don't think it's worth it to have to explain that isn't the case, as they probably wouldn't believe me anyway.

Yes, teenagers who are obsessed with anime and try to speak faux japanese and what have you are annoying, but I think this forum could easily turn into a battleground for slagging off people who like Japanese through anime, which is, in my opinion, a perfectly valid reason for liking it. As long as the language and culture are treated with due respect, I don't see there is a problem.

Another point - and feel free to argue me down on this one - I personally think it's better to have slightly scarily obsessive people who actually have an interest in something from another culture, despite if it's a little misguided/malinformed, than xenophobic people who wouldn't even take a second look at something if it was in another language.

I was considering writing a short rant in defence of teenagers (i am a teenager - it figures), but this post is already far too long.
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby Kokuhaku » Tue 08.14.2007 9:18 am

fortunately or unfortunately no one, i mean no one around here (Bucharest,Romania) talk about Japan maybe some, i mean few watch anime but No one! speak Japanese most of em don't know what konnichi wa means -_- and i didn't see no one being a fan or "otaku" as u ppl say, and friends ask me all the time why do i lean Japanese and why do i need it for?, or its useless to learn it and stuff like that. People with locked minds that is what irritates me -_-
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby Xism » Tue 08.14.2007 9:18 am

yea man, got the same problem in my school. though i'm a senior, (along with a few others in my grade) its annoying to have topics or projects based off of anime/manga over half the class has never heard of. i'll admit i like anime just as much as the next guy but you're in a classroom. last time i checked, classrooms were meant for learning, not discussing something you could've talked about after school between your friends.

also...

the excessive use of basic japanese words such as "baka" or "kawaii" has almost driven me to punch a wall. especially when the younger students would get so into learning japanese, that their voices would change, as if they've lived in japan since day 1, and tried speaking english.

something like this >> "ai hawento to petto za hawaito rabbitto" *i went to pet the white rabbit*

i sometimes wonder if the class is worth taking anymore. i want to reach at least 21 before i go insane or somethin'...
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby pubju » Sun 08.19.2007 7:11 pm

Xurma wrote:
Ok I now made a thread about this (Edited to more formal)

In here Finland is a bunch of irritating 9-15 or older people (most girls) who have got a wrong image of Japan due to anime or manga.

It's annoying to see them talking about Japan like they would know everything about it, though they don't even know any facts. Some of them think that Japan is all paradise, and believe that if they go to Japan, it's an all motion of fashion there.

Some of them wear like weirdos, other ones are little brats, dreaming all the time about going to Japan without knowing facts about the real one.

It annoys me and sure annoys others too, because those Japan fanatics have made a bad reputation to Japanese learners and those who are really interested about Japanese culture and etc. That's why when I have sometimes said that I'm studying Japanese, then many people have reacted like: "Oh, so you want to be able to read manga?" or "So you want to be able to watch anime without subtitles". That is mocking against those who are interested about real Japan and Japanese language.

I don't straightly hate those Japan fanatics, but the wrong and distorted knowledge they have of Japan because of anime, manga, or some other things.

And I too watch anime, but it doesn't affect my behavior, knowledge or clothing, and I'm sure that many else does the same.

Have you experienced the same?

Amen. Sometimes I feel embarrassed to say I'm studying Japanese in case I get a stupid comment about anime or manga...

I'm not a fan of anime or manga, I don't cosplay and I'm not a dork... shoo :(
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby CelticNinja » Tue 08.21.2007 7:26 am

I've always enjoyed Japanese Culture ever since I learned about it when I was like seven. I am a anime fan, and I would like to understand what is being said more (as people have said all the subtitles vary and etc etc)...but that isn't why I am actually learning Japanese. I'm learning Japanese, because I am set on learning a language fluently as a sort of life goal, I would like to visit Japan to see it for its culture, to have a travelling experince and to meet people, but I want to do it all over the world not Just in Japan.

The Baka and Kawaii thing I get, I hear people yes probably anime nuts use that all the time, I have used them occasionally myself, as my little brothers are complete and absoulete idiots/fools whatever. I have learnt proverbs and sayings though in Japanese to use to though and in other languages.

I don't think Japan is a pardise or a nirvana, it's on planet earth and it is full of humans. With those two simple facts you can simply evlauate that the place is going to have its own issues.

I think the main issue with people talking about Japan or when talking about anything else for that matter is when they open their mouths without knowing what they are actually talking about. That is the problem, I believe.

(I am a teenager by the way :p but I'm not defending teenagers or anyone else at all, because we are all individuals, and a majority of us are silly and a majority aren't to, and sometimes we can all be very silly.) :P
LOL
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby Txkun » Tue 08.21.2007 8:51 am

The otaku rant often springs in forums.
And I really think there is often a kind of "elitism" going on.
I mean: why are you so much annoyed by this "poor" otaku teens?
A teen, by definition has less than 20 years, right? Why do you assume that he's really mature? Why do you assume he'll not develop his interest in something more dense?
I understand having class ruined by some people that thinks that japan is heaven (and we all know it's not) and that japanese is only kawaii or baka (and we all know it's not) can bring trouble but who are we to judge? Let them find later. They'll drop class and do something more interesting for them. A teacher should know that this kind of people exist, or not?

lemonaid wrote:
I suspect that most of us on this forum are just people with an healthy interest in the language and culture who still act the same way as we'd do without our interest in Japanese so I'm not sure why I felt compelled to write this here. I'm just venting I guess. Maybe it has to do with the fact that my japanese teacher quit her job because she couldn't handle that the topic of class debates always was about some anime character or the increasing number of students leaving after two weeks because they realize it is impossible to learn Japanese in that amount of time. It just sucks big time.

I don't agree. I was attracted to many aspect of japanese culture since I was a kid. Without this interest (that brought me to the interest in the language as well) I wouldn't be myself. I can't act the same if I'm not the same. I see world in a certain way because of my cultural background. And my culture is derived from what I read, what I saw and the anime (and so a way culture is processed in images) I saw.
What I really believe is that all is culture. You have not to be classy about where it comes from. What is important is that you get it with a grain of salt.
Even if you hate these form of expression (anime/manga/popular culture) you should undertand that they are very important for many aspects of the image of japan that is exported in other countries. That fact alone, would deserve a sociological/historical study. I'm sorry maybe I got little OT.
Last edited by Txkun on Tue 08.21.2007 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby ss » Tue 08.21.2007 10:32 am

Txkunさん,

お帰りなさい。しばらく, 最近いかがですか?
Glad to see you back. Hope you are doing fine.

Txkun wrote:
The otaku rant often springs in forums.
And I really think there is often a kind of "elitism" going on.
I mean: why are you so much annoyed by this "poor" otaku teens?
A teen, by definition has less than 20 years, right? Why do you assume that he's really mature? Why do you assume he'll not develop his interest in something more dense?


Who are you referring to when you mentioned the word “elitism”?

I’m sure you already know this is a learning forum, of course, being said that doesn’t mean we can’t have other topics for discussion. The most important thing to remember here is, in every relationship, we need respect, love, encouragement and being treated well instead of being totally ignored and often derided. Personally, I find most of the people here are just kind enough to have come to the forum almost every day, caring enough to give advices, not only in LANGUAGES MATTERS, but also sharing their experiences and lessons in real life, are these not valuable?

Naturally, it takes time, determination and courage to change, this is a growing-up process. But, when you realize that people are not making the effort no matter what you do, do you really want to continue on? Generally, I think it is easier to give positive feedback than it is to give negative feedback. Giving negative feedback requires a proper understanding of the stuff, and also lots of courage to do so in a public forum.

Bear in mind that people here don’t earn a single cent by driving anybody away!

My parents always remind me:
You’re not going to progress much if you only like to listen to good stuff.
If you keep thinking negatively, you are going to be a looser forever, no matter where you go!


-----
Please don't feel offended, we are not teenager anymore, right? ;)
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Tue 08.21.2007 10:59 am

Everyone has their own reasons for being upset with the anime people. Some people feel like it cheapens the field of study as a whole and they fear guilt by association. Some people are anime fans themselves and also fear guilt by association because they don't think they are as "otaku" as other people. I certainly have no shame in saying that my first exposure to Japanese was through subtitled anime.

I said this earlier in the thread:

I think that there is some disturbing psychology at work in some teenage anime fans that bothers me not because it annoys me, but because it makes me think that they need help. Basically they're drawn to the anime subculture because it readily accepts social outcasts, and to them, "moving to Japan" represents starting a new life, where people won't shun them. They have a misguided understanding of the role of anime in Japanese culture, and they see Japan as the answer to whatever problems they're having. I think that any sort of obsession of this type can be dangerous. Not all people are like this, of course.


I'm just reposting this because a recent new (now banned) member showed this tendency.

I also said this before, but I see no relation between interest in anime and success at learning Japanese. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who begin to study Japanese will never attain any functional proficiency in the language, no matter what their reason for studying is. So yes, a lot of anime fans start learning Japanese and "fail" -- but so do a lot of people who start learning Japanese for any reason.
Last edited by Yudan Taiteki on Tue 08.21.2007 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby Txkun » Tue 08.21.2007 12:16 pm

Hi SS!
I'm fine thanks! Just got back from Japan!

SS wrote:
Txkunさん,

お帰りなさい。しばらく, 最近いかがですか?
Glad to see you back. Hope you are doing fine.

Txkun wrote:
The otaku rant often springs in forums.
And I really think there is often a kind of "elitism" going on.


Who are you referring to when you mentioned the word “elitism”?

Not that I'm referring to anyone in particular.
I just feel that sometimes people expressed here (and in other forums) a kind of "hate" against this kind of people (otaku teens). Like they own the key to Japanese knowledge or japanese culture. I think it's a negative approach and doesn't help anyone. I agree with you about costructive criticism. And it's vital.

SS wrote:
-----
Please don't feel offended, we are not teenager anymore, right? ;)

I don't understand.. we are saying the same thing... why should I be offended? :o
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby ss » Tue 08.21.2007 1:42 pm

I'm fine thanks! Just got back from Japan!


Hi Txkun,
Glad to hear that.

I don't understand.. we are saying the same thing... why should I be offended? :o


Edit-Thanks for clarifying. Happy to hear there's no misunderstanding. ^_^v

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Last edited by ss on Tue 08.21.2007 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby two_heads_talking » Tue 08.21.2007 1:55 pm

AkiKaza-chan wrote:


(OH, and on a smally-unrelated topic, my sister has insisted on kicking me off of her computer for the third time today, telling me I "needed" to leave so she can watch the english dubbed version of Sailor Moon. She won't stop going on about it...'s kinda annoying really ;))


it's her computer, be lucky she lets you use it at all. she could just tell you to get your own. so, be happy you have what you do and keep up the good work.
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby RpgN » Tue 08.21.2007 2:31 pm

The reason why I am learning Japanese is simple...I want to use it. I admire lots of artists and developers and would love to understand what they have to say. For instance, it's a pleasure to be able to understand the lyrics of music I listen to. My other passion is video games. There are some really cool games that were never released in Europe. I love reading magazines and want to understand all the impressions, reviews etc. from Japanese music (jpop and jrock, like CD data magazine) and games (famitsu is a well known magazine). Also Japanese shows are really fun to watch and dramas (or doramas) are worth the time. Though I do enjoy a few serious fantasy animes (wolf's rain, scrapped princess) and a few funny ones (midori no hibi), I'm not really that into it. But manga on the other hand is a good practice for kanji and there are a few well written stories.

But I have to admit, I was kind of a ''fangirl'' when it came to Japan and still am (only less crazy). It began with games seven years ago. In these years I loved their culture even more and became interested in more stuff. At first I was just learning Japanese to see if I can learn this language and act cool, but after about a year, I respected the language and really wanted to use it (and still am). Now after 2 years, I learned lots of stuff and am starting to enjoy reading Japanese magazines, watching tv-shows and playing imported rpg games. Still there are lots of times where it looked like I didn't understand a thing and there are 1400 kanji left to learn. I am learning the language and am not planning on turning my back. It's just great to be able to understand texts by self-study and be motivated to continue. I'm not sure if that makes me an otaku. I guess I am, but not a crazy one (at least not anymore).
Last edited by RpgN on Tue 08.21.2007 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So, do you think I can learn Japanese?
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これは本当に難しいですね?だから今は頑張っている! 楽しいです!
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby AkiKaza-chan » Sat 08.25.2007 9:36 pm

two_heads_talking wrote:
AkiKaza-chan wrote:


(OH, and on a smally-unrelated topic, my sister has insisted on kicking me off of her computer for the third time today, telling me I "needed" to leave so she can watch the english dubbed version of Sailor Moon. She won't stop going on about it...'s kinda annoying really ;))


it's her computer, be lucky she lets you use it at all. she could just tell you to get your own. so, be happy you have what you do and keep up the good work.


I know it was her computer, I wasn't putting her down. I have my own, and I'm grateful she let me use it while mine was broken. But still...when I had to do reports and homework, it was kind of inconveniencing.

Sorry about the off-topicness...sorta... :D
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RE: Teen japan fans

Postby gollybype » Sat 08.25.2007 10:59 pm

first off.. i wanna learn japanese coz i like their culture and so when i can meet my kawaii boiz..hahah.. just kidding but there's only one person whom i really admired... but just because for anime... absolutely not!! i love animes and mangas but i HIM more...hahahah :D
I HATE TOO FORMAL PEOPLE... AS IF THEY WERE REALLY THAT SMART!!!....DUH~~~
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