X is nice. X is also expensive.

Japanese, general discussion on the language
User avatar
tanuki
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by tanuki » Mon 08.06.2007 12:37 am

Hello, people!

How are you doing? Sorry for the rash post, but I need sleep and I'm rushing this to get into the sheets.

I know that in order to say "A is X. A is also B." you have to follow this pattern:

私は医者だ。そして先生でもある。
I'm a doctor. I'm also a teacher.

This example is from A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar.

My question is, does this work with other things beside nouns? Take for example these sentences.

この部屋は広いわね。
そう。静かでもあるわ。

クリスくんの新車はいいな。
うん。すごく高いでもあるよ。

And what about the past with i-adjectives? Conjugate the adjective or the aru?

My head hurts, gotta go. Bye!
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。

User avatar
katafei
Posts: 1766
Joined: Sun 07.09.2006 9:56 am
Native language: Dutch; Female
Location: A'veen

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by katafei » Mon 08.06.2007 5:34 am

Interesting question! My first impulse was to translate the 'is also' with a simple も.
Something like:
彼は医者ですがも先生です。
I wonder if this construction would also work?

And then I looked up the でも combination in my Oxford grammar, and found it to mean 'even if it is' with na-adjectives, equivalent to the ても in i-adjectives:
おいしくてもそんなに額さん食べてはいけない
(I figured this has a diiferent connotation, but then realised it does not include ある, so this bit of information is totally irrelevant ^_^ )

Jim Breen does not seem to give examples of でもある with i-adjectives. All I could only find was this kind of structure:
彼女は、美しいだけでなく、心がやさしく頭もよい。
Besides being beautiful, she kind and intellectual

The na-adjectives seem to loose the 'na':
彼女は率直でもあり素直でもあった。
She was at once frank and honest

If でもある does combine with i-adjective, my guess would be you would have to conjugate the i-adjective. If not, that would be an interesting exception. Or are there more exceptions like that?


(BTW, isn't the わ-ending indicative of female speech?
静かでもあるわ。)
We are all but images of our time

User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Mon 08.06.2007 8:34 am

katafei wrote:
Interesting question! My first impulse was to translate the 'is also' with a simple も.
Something like:
彼は医者ですがも先生です。
I wonder if this construction would also work?
No, that is ungrammatical.
Jim Breen does not seem to give examples of でもある with i-adjectives. All I could only find was this kind of structure:
彼女は、美しいだけでなく、心がやさしく頭もよい。
Besides being beautiful, she kind and intellectual
で is the -te form of the copula, so you would have to use the -te form of the adjectives here.
(BTW, isn't the わ-ending indicative of female speech?
静かでもあるわ。)
Sometimes, yes.
-Chris Kern

richvh
Posts: 6480
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm
Contact:

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by richvh » Mon 08.06.2007 9:38 am

After looking at a bunch of example sentences on ALC using the search string "is also" (most of which weren't relevant), I think the most likely answer is in the form 高いこともある or 高いのもある.
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語

User avatar
tanuki
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by tanuki » Mon 08.06.2007 9:46 am

Interesting. I had my doubts about 高いでもある, since you're not supposed to use 高いである/高いだ.

Following that train of thought, would the past be 高いこともあった or 高かったこともある?
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。

katsunori
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun 07.08.2007 9:00 am

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by katsunori » Mon 08.06.2007 11:45 am

でもある indicates で+もある. (The original form of で is だ.)
So, 医者だ → 医者もある、静かだ → 静かもある

In the case of adjectives,
高い → 高もある、やさしい → やさしもある

The past form is 高くもあった、 やさしくもあった.
(高いこともあった and 高かったこともある are both correct. )
--- That\'s my limit of English skills. ---
Katsu

User avatar
tanuki
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by tanuki » Mon 08.06.2007 1:28 pm

Ohhh! I would've never thought of that. Thanks a lot, katsunoriさん. :)
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。

User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Mon 08.06.2007 1:31 pm

「高くてもある」も大丈夫ですか?
-Chris Kern

User avatar
katafei
Posts: 1766
Joined: Sun 07.09.2006 9:56 am
Native language: Dutch; Female
Location: A'veen

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by katafei » Mon 08.06.2007 2:20 pm

After browsing JB a bit more, I came across this example which is pretty close to the one in the OP:

あの人は医者でありまた大学の先生でもある。
He is a doctor and a university professor

What exactly is this ありまた form?
I gather from other examples it means something like 'and' or 'also' as well?
We are all but images of our time

User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Mon 08.06.2007 2:27 pm

また means "and", あり is a conjugation of ある. That's a pretty formal way to say it.
-Chris Kern

richvh
Posts: 6480
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm
Contact:

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by richvh » Mon 08.06.2007 2:28 pm

It's the stem form of ある followed by the adverb また
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語

User avatar
katafei
Posts: 1766
Joined: Sun 07.09.2006 9:56 am
Native language: Dutch; Female
Location: A'veen

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by katafei » Mon 08.06.2007 2:32 pm

That was quick ^_^
thanks, guys.
We are all but images of our time

User avatar
tanuki
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by tanuki » Mon 08.06.2007 3:18 pm

You were supposed to say "thanks, rich!" there...
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。

User avatar
katafei
Posts: 1766
Joined: Sun 07.09.2006 9:56 am
Native language: Dutch; Female
Location: A'veen

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by katafei » Mon 08.06.2007 4:00 pm

どうして?
We are all but images of our time

User avatar
tanuki
Posts: 2302
Joined: Sun 09.25.2005 9:00 pm
Location: South America

RE: X is nice. X is also expensive.

Post by tanuki » Mon 08.06.2007 7:15 pm

Nevermind, it's nothing important. I don't want to hijack my own thread.
僕の下手な日本語を直してください。

Post Reply