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Double Particles

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Re: Double Particles

Postby Sairana » Tue 07.08.2008 11:52 pm

AJBryant wrote:Likewise, a non-proscriptive dictionary will often list "nukyular" as an "alternate" (rather than "incorrect" pronunciation for "nuclear."


So do you still say moleclear? ^_^ Moleclear -> molecular shift is identical to the nuclear -> nukular shift.

I couldn't resist.... don't hate me. :P
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Re: Double Particles

Postby chikara » Tue 07.08.2008 11:57 pm

aluminium :P
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Re: Double Particles

Postby furrykef » Wed 07.09.2008 12:39 am

*desperately trying to put this back on topic*

OK, so, I know that "X wa Y ga Z" is a common idiom:

私はりんごが好きです。
I like apples.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one usually would not use multiple topics here:

*私はりんごは好きです。

But you can have an exchange like this:

私はりんごが好きです。
I like apples.

オレンジは?
What about oranges?

オレンジも好きです。
I like oranges too.

The second sentence would not be "オレンジが?", because you're clearly setting a topic, right?

You can also use multiple "subjects" with ga if it is called for:

誰がりんごが好きですか?
Who likes apples?

私がりんごが好きです。
I like apples.

誰は here would clearly be wrong ("Does who like apples?" or "As for who, does he like apples?", neither of which makes sense), and likewise 私が rather than 私は because 私 is filling in the "blank" that 誰 represents, so it takes the same particle.

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Re: Double Particles

Postby AJBryant » Wed 07.09.2008 1:03 am

Harisenbon wrote:Just to play devil's advocate, I don't believe that the internet should be used as a source of grammatical correctness.

"What did you say" : Google: 1,080,000
"What you say" : Google : 20,200,000


You want to check those 20 million and see how many of them are actually things like "I agree with what you say" or "What you say makes sense, but..."?

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Re: Double Particles

Postby Harisenbon » Wed 07.09.2008 1:30 am

AJBryant wrote:You want to check those 20 million and see how many of them are actually things like "I agree with what you say" or "What you say makes sense, but..."?


I was actually going more towards the whole Zero Wing "All your base" meme from back in the day. :/

Like I said, a contrite example.
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Re: Double Particles

Postby chikara » Wed 07.09.2008 1:39 am

AJBryant wrote:You want to check those 20 million and see how many of them are actually things like "I agree with what you say" or "What you say makes sense, but..."?

Maybe my post about context was just too subtle :)
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Re: Double Particles

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 07.09.2008 8:23 am

furrykef wrote:*desperately trying to put this back on topic*

OK, so, I know that "X wa Y ga Z" is a common idiom:

私はりんごが好きです。
I like apples.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one usually would not use multiple topics here:

*私はりんごは好きです。


It's uncommon without a けど or the like after it, but I wouldn't go so far as to actually put an asterisk next to it. It would have to be something like this:
A: じゃあ、皆フルーツ全然好きじゃないの?
B: いや、私はりんごは好きです。
But it's not something you would run into every day, or even every year.

With けど after it, it's perfectly normal (although 私, of course, is often dropped):
ジョンは中国語はできるけど日本語は全然できない。
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Re: Double Particles

Postby furrykef » Sun 07.13.2008 12:25 am

furrykef wrote:You can also use multiple "subjects" with ga if it is called for:

誰がりんごが好きですか?
Who likes apples?

私がりんごが好きです。
I like apples.

誰は here would clearly be wrong ("Does who like apples?" or "As for who, does he like apples?", neither of which makes sense), and likewise 私が rather than 私は because 私 is filling in the "blank" that 誰 represents, so it takes the same particle.


Hmmm. I'm no longer sure this particular example sentence is correct, and I really should have tried to figure out if it was before I posted it. Comments?

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Re: Double Particles

Postby MFoogle » Sun 07.13.2008 12:32 am

"誰がりんごが好きですか?
Who likes apples?"

I am curious about that one. Would you keep it using 2 ga's, or replace the ga after ringo with a wa?
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Re: Double Particles

Postby furrykef » Sun 07.13.2008 1:10 am

No, I'm pretty sure putting a "wa" there wouldn't make sense: "Who, as for apples, likes them?"

I think the real question is whether one uses "ga" for the person who likes the apples, or whether a different particle is used. In that case, both 誰 in the question and 私 in the answer will take that particle.

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Re: Double Particles

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Sun 07.13.2008 9:45 am

は typically does not come second in that sort of phrase. リンゴは、誰が好きですか。 is fine. 誰がリンゴは好きですか would be unusual.
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