Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - 大きな OR 大きい

大きな OR 大きい

Have a Question about some Grammar point? Share it with the world!

きな OR きい

Postby kentaku_sama » Tue 04.07.2009 1:17 am

They both mean big, large, great which one do you use when.

Would you say: この部屋はきなでしょう。 OR この部屋はきいでしょう。  This room is big isn't it.

Correct me if I used "deshou" wrong. ^^
kentaku_sama
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri 11.21.2008 2:21 am
Native language: English

Re: きな OR きい

Postby AJBryant » Tue 04.07.2009 1:53 am

When you see きな it's acting as a "na-adjective" and needs to be modifying a noun.

この部屋はきな部屋です is correct. この部屋はきなです is just wrong. この部屋はきいです is okay.

The big issue, though is with the でしょう. The only time you would generally use that in この部屋はきい--- is in a sort of rhetorical sense. Either you know if the room is large or not.

It's just not the best example to use to bring up usages of でしょう.


Tony
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: きな OR きい

Postby spin13 » Tue 04.07.2009 2:50 am

AJBryant wrote:When you see きな it's acting as a "na-adjective" and needs to be modifying a noun.


In addition to this, although not a rule per se, there is a tendency to use きな in a subjective sense or with abstract concepts, while きい often goes with physical, factual things.

きい部屋だ。 It is a big room.
きい船が通っていった。 A big ship passed by.
きな悩みだ。 It's a big problem/worry.
彼は失敗しても、きな顔をするタイプだ。 Even when he makes a mistake, he's the kind of guy who acts like he owns the place.
You're probably not as smart as you think.
Unskilled and Unaware
spin13
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed 04.06.2005 9:38 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: きな OR きい

Postby AJBryant » Tue 04.07.2009 6:29 am

Ah, good point.

きに!
User avatar
AJBryant
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5313
Joined: Sun 10.09.2005 11:29 am
Location: Indiana
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: きな OR きい

Postby astaroth » Tue 04.07.2009 10:36 am

spin13 wrote:In addition to this, although not a rule per se, there is a tendency to use きな in a subjective sense or with abstract concepts, while きい often goes with physical, factual things.

きい部屋だ。 It is a big room.
きい船が通っていった。 A big ship passed by.
きな悩みだ。 It's a big problem/worry.
彼は失敗しても、きな顔をするタイプだ。 Even when he makes a mistake, he's the kind of guy who acts like he owns the place.

Always wondered whether there were any difference in meanings between the two, and always thought it was just a matter of taste.
Does the same tendency apply to 小さい and 小さな ?
ー 流光 ー

   花地世
小  見獄の
林  かの中
一  な上は
茶   の 
User avatar
astaroth
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon 12.22.2008 5:08 am
Location: Amherst, MA
Native language: Italiano「伊語」

Re: きな OR きい

Postby richvh » Tue 04.07.2009 10:55 am

astaroth wrote:
spin13 wrote:In addition to this, although not a rule per se, there is a tendency to use きな in a subjective sense or with abstract concepts, while きい often goes with physical, factual things.

Always wondered whether there were any difference in meanings between the two, and always thought it was just a matter of taste.
Does the same tendency apply to 小さい and 小さな ?

Yes.
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語
richvh
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm

Re: きな OR きい

Postby furrykef » Tue 04.07.2009 11:04 am

It's still only a general tendency (so I'd assume; I certainly don't speak enough Japanese to have an opinion). One of the first sentences on iKnow!/smart.fm is そこにきな円を描いて。 -- clearly referring to physical size.

- Kef
Founder of Learning Languages Through Video Games.
Also see my lang-8 journal, where you can help me practice Japanese (and Spanish, and Italian!)
User avatar
furrykef
 
Posts: 1572
Joined: Thu 01.10.2008 9:20 pm
Native language: Eggo (ワッフル語の方言)
Gender: Male

Re: きな OR きい

Postby richvh » Tue 04.07.2009 12:48 pm

Daijisen wrote:[用法] おおきい・おおきな―― 「きい」には「きい家」「あの家はきい」「きくなる」「きかった」のように活用があるが、「きな」は「きな家」「きな打撃を受けた」のように体言の前にしか使わない。◇「きい顔」と「きな顔」とでは、前者は事実としての広さ、きさを表しているが、後者は「きな顔をする」のように主観的・心理的な判断を表す傾向がある。◇「きな希望がわいてくる」「きな過ちを犯した」など、抽象的な事柄を表す名詞にかかるときは、「きい」よりも「きな」を使うことが多い。これも「きな」の右のような特徴による。
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語
richvh
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm

Re: きな OR きい

Postby kentaku_sama » Tue 04.07.2009 5:19 pm

Ahh so きな Can only be used with nouns, きい Can be used with both. But it sounds better to use きい when refering to physical size?
kentaku_sama
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri 11.21.2008 2:21 am
Native language: English

Re: きな OR きい

Postby astaroth » Tue 04.07.2009 5:39 pm

kentaku_sama wrote:Ahh so きな Can only be used with nouns, きい Can be used with both. But it sounds better to use きい when refering to physical size?

Sorry I don't really understand your comment. Both きな and きい are used with nouns, for instance as in the example provided by Rich
きい家
きな
Both 家 and 顔 are nouns.
The difference between the two, as I learned here, is that きい has a nuance of something being physically big, while きな of something being perceived to be as in きな顔をする.
ー 流光 ー

   花地世
小  見獄の
林  かの中
一  な上は
茶   の 
User avatar
astaroth
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon 12.22.2008 5:08 am
Location: Amherst, MA
Native language: Italiano「伊語」

Re: きな OR きい

Postby richvh » Tue 04.07.2009 6:44 pm

きい can be used as a predicate; きな can only be used to modify a following noun.
Richard VanHouten
ゆきの物語
richvh
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: Thu 09.29.2005 10:35 pm


Return to Grammar Questions and Problems

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests