お or ご

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astaroth
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お or ご

Post by astaroth » Mon 04.20.2009 1:31 pm

Hi everyone,
is there a rule when お is used instead of ご and viceversa? For instance it's おそば and not ごそば, but it's ご飯 and not お飯.
ー 流光 ー

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小  見獄の
林  かの中
一  な上は
茶   の 

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Yudan Taiteki
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Re: お or ご

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Mon 04.20.2009 1:59 pm

The general rule is that native Japanese words get お, and foreign loans (particularly Chinese loans) get ご. Of course this doesn't help if you don't know which are which, and the rule is not absolute (exceptions include お茶, おたばこ).
-Chris Kern

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Re: お or ご

Post by spin13 » Mon 04.20.2009 2:29 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:The general rule is that native Japanese words get お, and foreign loans (particularly Chinese loans) get ご.
I think it's simpler to just say match on-yomi (、ギョ) with on-yomi, kun-yomi (、おん、み) with kun-yomi, and watch out for exceptions. Most modern/katakana loanwords don't take any honorific, and the only three I can think of that commonly do take お (おトイレ、おたばこ、おビール).

A few common exceptions: お世話、お返事、お勉強、お電話、お食事、お料理、御社(おんしゃ)、御苑(ぎょえん)、and 御輿(みこし).

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AJBryant
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Re: お or ご

Post by AJBryant » Mon 04.20.2009 2:44 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:The general rule is that native Japanese words get お, and foreign loans (particularly Chinese loans) get ご. Of course this doesn't help if you don't know which are which, and the rule is not absolute (exceptions include お茶, おたばこ).
Which makes me wonder, actually, why poor coffee doesn't get an honorific -- tea gets one, and even the evil tobakky gets one. But my morning nectar, the broth of life, the sacred javajuice, is left out. :cry:

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Re: お or ご

Post by kurisuto » Mon 04.20.2009 3:16 pm

To follow on Astaroth question, how do you know whether a certain word can take the honorific ? I think there isn't a positive rule, but is there a negative one, e.g "the words related to this domain never take it" ?

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Re: お or ご

Post by Infidel » Mon 04.20.2009 4:45 pm

kurisuto wrote:To follow on Astaroth question, how do you know whether a certain word can take the honorific ? I think there isn't a positive rule, but is there a negative one, e.g "the words related to this domain never take it" ?
Well, if adding o or go changes the word to another word, you probably leave it out.

E.g. nani o shimasu ka.
なるほど。
さっぱりわからん。

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astaroth
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Re: お or ご

Post by astaroth » Mon 04.20.2009 4:55 pm

Infidel wrote:E.g. nani o shimasu ka.
sorry I don't understand the example ... that "o" is を not お ...
ー 流光 ー

   花地世
小  見獄の
林  かの中
一  な上は
茶   の 

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Re: お or ご

Post by kurisuto » Mon 04.20.2009 4:58 pm

Infidel wrote:E.g. nani o shimasu ka.
It depends on what you mean by that : you can say 何をお読みになりますか. Verbs do take the honorific, although it's a bit special. (sorry if I misunderstood what you said)

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astaroth
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Re: お or ご

Post by astaroth » Mon 04.20.2009 5:01 pm

But isn't that 読み more of a noun than of a verb?
[edit ... again] I mean, isn't a kind of nominalization?
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小  見獄の
林  かの中
一  な上は
茶   の 

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Re: お or ご

Post by NocturnalOcean » Mon 04.20.2009 5:04 pm

Infidel wrote:
kurisuto wrote:To follow on Astaroth question, how do you know whether a certain word can take the honorific ? I think there isn't a positive rule, but is there a negative one, e.g "the words related to this domain never take it" ?
Well, if adding o or go changes the word to another word, you probably leave it out.

E.g. nani o shimasu ka.
I don't get your example, however just to mention some funny examples where words actually change meaning by adding o.

にぎり vs おにぎり
寒い vs お寒い
開き vs お開き
荷物 vs お荷物
失敗は成功の元

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kurisuto
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Re: お or ご

Post by kurisuto » Mon 04.20.2009 5:06 pm

astaroth wrote:But isn't that 読み more of a noun than of a verb?
[edit ... again] I mean, isn't a kind of nominalization?
Not exactly : it is 敬語 (keigo), i.e honorific language (o+masu stem+ni naru). This 'o+masu stem" is used in other constructions (e.g お読みください).

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astaroth
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Re: お or ご

Post by astaroth » Mon 04.20.2009 5:08 pm

NocturnalOcean wrote: I don't get your example, however just to mention some funny examples where words actually change meaning by adding o.
Do they change only by the お? Or also by pitch? Something like 橋 and お箸
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   花地世
小  見獄の
林  かの中
一  な上は
茶   の 

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astaroth
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Re: お or ご

Post by astaroth » Mon 04.20.2009 5:08 pm

kurisuto wrote:
astaroth wrote:But isn't that 読み more of a noun than of a verb?
[edit ... again] I mean, isn't a kind of nominalization?
Not exactly : it is 敬語 (keigo), i.e honorific language (o+masu stem+ni naru). This 'o+masu stem" is used in other constructions (e.g お読みください).
Oh I see. Sorry I didn't learn that construction yet ...
ー 流光 ー

   花地世
小  見獄の
林  かの中
一  な上は
茶   の 

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kurisuto
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Re: お or ご

Post by kurisuto » Mon 04.20.2009 5:18 pm

If I may give you an advice, don't feel obliged to learn it yet, but just taking a look at this page could be interesting to get a feel of how it works.

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Yudan Taiteki
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Re: お or ご

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Mon 04.20.2009 5:21 pm

astaroth wrote:But isn't that 読み more of a noun than of a verb?
[edit ... again] I mean, isn't a kind of nominalization?
Grammatically, yes, 読み is a noun. That's why you can add お to it. It's also why に can be used to connect it to なる in the honorific お読みになる.
-Chris Kern

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