Learn Japanese with JapanesePod101.com

View topic - 2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

Have a Question about some Grammar point? Share it with the world!

2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

Postby Spikeygal » Fri 06.19.2009 7:05 am

Reading the new DOGS chapter in ultra jump, but I don’t understand a few grammar points.

「執拗なるジョヴァンイ・・・!」

The adjective 執拗な is listed as such in my dictionary – but what does the る do to the word here? To show that he is being persistant, rather than just is described as persistant? The sentence is stand-alone, so there’s not much context to read into, but the panels before are about the return of a character that always bothers the main character.

「まずは一時を楽しもうじゃないか」

I can’t figure out the subject in this sentence. My first guess would be that you could combine まずは一時 roughly to say that the subject is “that first time”, but I’m not sure that’s right. The character is talking about the last time he visited.

I’m sorry if my explanations are hard to follow, but it is difficult to explain. I hope someone can help me out.
User avatar
Spikeygal
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat 07.01.2006 3:07 pm

Re: 2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

Postby JaySee » Fri 06.19.2009 9:07 am

Your first question:

This is not a case of な, but rather of the verb なる used attributively. I'm not 100% sure, but I think in this case (without the に you'd normally expect) you have a hold-over from the classical Japanese usage of the verb, so that here it is used as an equivalent of である (to be) rather than as "to become".

Your second question:

I think there are some words that you haven't looked up correctly (一時 / まず). 一時 and まず don't form a grammatical unit in this sentence (otherwise they'd be connected with の, whereas here you have は). The は doesn't indicate the subject here - it's just used to emphasise まず. This means that the subject in the sentence isn't explicitly mentioned, but looking at the 楽しもう it's probably first person plural.
JaySee
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat 08.04.2007 12:04 am
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Dutch
Gender: Male

Re: 2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

Postby yukamina » Fri 06.19.2009 12:07 pm

Could you give some context for the second sentence?
yukamina
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue 06.05.2007 1:41 am

Re: 2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 06.19.2009 12:31 pm

yukamina wrote:Could you give some context for the second sentence?


Agreed; "まずは一時を楽しもうじゃないか" is hard to imagine as a statement talking about the last time he visited. It looks to me something like "First off, let's spend a bit of time fooling around, OK?" or something along those lines, but 楽しむ is a little context-dependent.
-Chris Kern
User avatar
Yudan Taiteki
 
Posts: 5609
Joined: Wed 11.01.2006 11:32 pm
Native language: English

Re: 2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

Postby spin13 » Fri 06.19.2009 10:03 pm

JaySee wrote:This is not a case of な, but rather of the verb なる used attributively. I'm not 100% sure, but I think in this case (without the に you'd normally expect) you have a hold-over from the classical Japanese usage of the verb, so that here it is used as an equivalent of である (to be) rather than as "to become".

It is a holdover from classical Japanese, but it's not the verb 成る. Rather it's a contraction of にある and simply part of 形容動詞's regular, but mostly outdated*, conjugation. You can see the full conjugations as well as the changes over time at Wikipedia's Adjectival Noun (Japanese) article.

*Some words, like 単なる, still use this form.
You're probably not as smart as you think.
Unskilled and Unaware
spin13
 
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed 04.06.2005 9:38 pm
Location: Tokyo
Native language: English
Gender: Male

Re: 2 problems: 執拗なる and finding the subject

Postby JaySee » Sat 06.20.2009 7:40 am

I know that classical なり is a contraction of にあり, but I somehow always assumed that its meaning simply shifted to "to become" in the modern language, with the longer form falling out of use. Now I realise that the two are etymologically unrelated (which does make more sense, thinking about it)... thanks for clearing that up.
JaySee
 
Posts: 314
Joined: Sat 08.04.2007 12:04 am
Location: Tokyo
Native language: Dutch
Gender: Male


Return to Grammar Questions and Problems

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests