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This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

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This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

Postby squarezebra » Tue 06.30.2009 3:50 pm

みんなさん、こんばんは

Could anyone just have a look at these for me please.

I am asked to perform the same operation as in the example:

京都は夏は暑い。
京都は冬は寒い。ーーー>
京都は夏は暑いが冬は寒い。

Simple right? Yes.

However, the actual exercises that follow don't seem to fit that pattern (or do they?):

このみかんは高かった。
このみかんはおいしくない。

elemetary stuff right, and surely that would be either このみかんは高かったがこのみかんはおいしくない。 
or このみかんは高かったがこれはおいしくない。 Simple right? Or am i missing the point?

Maybe, its talking about the same orange which would make it このみかんは高かったがおいしくない?

I'd really appreciate it if anyone could slap me in the face with the obvious. Its just, i kinda don't see why id be doing stuff this simple, other than to help learning new conjugations.
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Re: This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

Postby astaroth » Tue 06.30.2009 4:23 pm

squarezebra wrote:Maybe, it's talking about the same orange which would make it このみかんは高かったがおいしくない?

I think that this is the correct one. I'm assuming in the exercise they're talking about the same orange ...
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Re: This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

Postby squarezebra » Tue 06.30.2009 4:33 pm

thanks Astaroth,

It was obvious.... so much so that I DID miss the point.

Same subject in both examples.
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Re: This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

Postby Xiaohua » Tue 06.30.2009 7:40 pm

"このみかんは高かったがこれはおいしくない"
If you say that you'll be talking about two different things or two different みかん.
As I understand the preceding sentence :
"このみかんは高かった" This orange was expensive
"これはおいしくない" That one isn't delicious.

Sound strange isn't it ? ;) (or at least to a non-english nor non-japanese native :3)

"このみかんは高かったがおいしくない" is correct. Another possible sentence would be "このみかんは高くておいしくないです。"
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Re: This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

Postby keatonatron » Tue 06.30.2009 10:49 pm

I don't think any of us are in the position to tell you what your textbook (?) is asking for. It didn't explain what you are supposed to be getting out of this exercise?

I think it might be about using the は が は construction to compare and contrast two items:
"If you're talking about Summer, it's hot. If you're talking about Winter, it's cold."

If this is the case, comparing two みかん's would seem to be what they are looking for.

Starting with 夏は暑いが冬は寒い and ending up with このみかんが高くておいしくない as "following the same pattern" doesn't make much sense :? Although, it also doesn't make any sense to compare 高かった with おいしくない. You would expect the one that isn't expensive to not be tasty, right? :roll:

So... it looks like the example sentence is contrasting ("Summer is hot, while winter is cold") but the answer astaroth gave you is is a simple "but" construction ("This mikan was expensive but sour"). Learn from it whatever you can :oops:

What kind of learning materials are you using, anyway?
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Re: This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

Postby squarezebra » Wed 07.01.2009 4:07 pm

Hi, thank you everyone for you replies

Having looked at it since, I think the exercise (although it doesn't make it explicit) is trying to get me to think about contrasts within a sentence, of the type "this orange was expensive, but it doesn't taste very nice", in the same way that there is a contrast inherent in the statement "In Kyoto, the summers are hot, but the winters are cold".

Its the fact that the exercise book doesn't always explain what it is attempting to teach you very well, but just expects you to know by looking at the example sentences, that makes some of these exercises more though provoking. In a sense, this isn't a bad thing, since it actually makes me pay more attention to what it is that i'm doing, rather than just mechanically writing out sentences.

The course book that I am using is the "Introduction to Modern Japanese" set by Haruko Laurie and Richard Bowring. Its a fantastic set in my opinion; it is very grammar heavy, and gets you writing in Japanese right from the off. However, it is designed to be a complanion to a taught course, rather than for self study per se. I'm not gonna let that discourage me though. The book has quite ambitious claims... half way through the 52 chapter book I should be able to read short simple stories with ease, and by the end should be able to attempt Newspapers with only the use of a dictionary. The Japanese lecturer at my local University (where i'll be taking some Japanese classes this year) seemed very impressed with the content, and suggested that i see it through to the end.

I also have... Yookoso I and II, Remembering the Kanji, Teach Yourself Japanese (poor if you ask me), A guide to remembering the Japanese Characters, and the Kodansha Kanji dictionary, and furigana dictionary.
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Re: This seems so obvious, it makes me suspicious...

Postby furrykef » Thu 07.02.2009 12:11 am

squarezebra wrote:みんなさん、こんばんは


Note: みんなさん is not a word. Just say みなさん. :)

(Yes, you can say みんな, but if you add さん, you must drop the ん.)
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