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Past conditionals

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Re: Past conditionals

Postby Svensk » Mon 07.27.2009 2:36 pm

NocturnalOcean wrote: When using this construction, you use either ている for nonpast, or ていた for past. Using normal past and nonpast form here will turn it into something that has happened or will be realized.

Example:

時間があれば、その映画を見る (つもりだ). (通常の条件). It will be realized.
時間があれば、その映画を見ている。 This is called 反事実. It's not happening.


1. Where can I read more about "反事実", and what is it called in english?
2. I do not really get it. (and excuse me for being totally ignorant here, everything you wrote kind of confused me) Is the first sentence an alternative to the second? What does those hiragana and kanji in parenthesis mean, and how does that other japanese sentence mean that something is "not happening", while something will "be realised" if you use the first sentence? :?

"For this structure it is also very common with ている in first sentence."
Can I use ていたin the first sentence?

Thank you for your help!
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Re: Past conditionals

Postby sampaguita » Sun 08.02.2009 6:50 am

NocturnalOcean wrote:
astaroth wrote:
Back on your examples I'd say for the first (by the way it should have been "If he had had met her, he would have been in trouble") → 彼女に会ったら、困りました。困る is in the past tense so the entire sentence is in the past.
And the second 彼女に会ったら、困ります。Here 困る is in the present tense.


This is something called 反事実 in Japanese. When using this construction, you use either ている for nonpast, or ていた for past. Using normal past and nonpast form here will turn it into something that has happened or will be realized.

Example:

時間があれば、その映画を見る (つもりだ). (通常の条件). It will be realized.
時間があれば、その映画を見ている。 This is called 反事実. It's not happening.


That was a little confusing for me. I thought that when you use ている or ていた with conditionals, it means that when you met the condition, the result was "already there".

家に帰って来たら、おとうとがもう勉強していた。 - When I arrived home, my brother was already studying. (He didn't study BECAUSE you arrived, he was studying WHEN you arrived.)
台風のあと庭え出てみたら、木や花が倒れていました。 - When I went out into the garden after the typhoon, trees and flowers were lying on the ground.


In that case, when do you use ている? Sorry if this may seem a stupid question.
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