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. . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

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. . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby space_bubble » Wed 08.19.2009 3:10 pm

I have a question about a sentence from a yomimono. (I do have a reasonable handle on VERB-te where it's used conjunctively and so forth, but in the sentence I have a question about, VERB-te is used in a way that I'm not totally sure about.)

こちらの大学では学生たちがみんな携帯電話を持っているので、私もこちらに来てすぐ携帯電話を買いました。

Should the sentence be read as
'Since all the students here at the university have cell phones, I bought a cell phone as soon as I got here' ?

(Being only a few months away from -- and still having fresh in my mind -- having learned chronological sequence patterns such as ~てから, ~時に, 後で, etc., I kept (probably mistakenly) trying to shoehorn a 'when' into the second clause, but there's really not that sense in that clause other than the aforementioned 'as soon as', correct?)

Thanks in advance for corrections/explanations/clarifications/amplifications.
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Wed 08.19.2009 3:33 pm

This is the same usage of -te as usual -- one action done before another one. The 来る happened, then the 買う happened (right afterwards, as per the すぐ).
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby space_bubble » Wed 08.19.2009 3:57 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:This is the same usage of -te as usual -- one action done before another one. The 来る happened, then the 買う happened (right afterwards, as per the すぐ).

Great point, but I still don't quite get it.

Could
こちらの大学では学生たちがみんな携帯電話をもっているので、私もこちらに来てすぐ携帯電話を買いました
be rewritten as either
こちらの大学では学生たちがみんな携帯電話を持っているので、私もこちらに来た時すぐ携帯電話を買いました
or
こちらの大学では学生たちがみんな携帯電話を持っているので、私もこちらに来た後すぐ携帯電話を買いました
or
こちらの大学では学生たちがみんな携帯電話を持っているので、私もこちらに来てからすぐ携帯電話を買いました
without altering the basic meaning?
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby NileCat » Wed 08.19.2009 4:40 pm

Yes. They mean same. And every sentence sounds natural.
日本語で書きます。
ニュアンスの問題は、文脈(context)によると思いますが、

「私もこちらに来てすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
もっともシンプルな表現です。

「私もこちらに来たすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
いつ買ったのか? を正確に強調する意図を感じます。

「私もこちらに来たすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
来る前 でなく 来た後 であることを明示することによって、「すぐ」を強調しています。

「私もこちらに来てからすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
来た後すぐ とほとんど同じ印象を受けます。

意味は同じです。
ニュアンスの差も、非常にわずかです。また、その差は、人によって受け止め方が違うでしょう。
文体の差(stylistic variation)と言っていいと思います。

(私は文法学者ではないので、異論反論は甘んじて受けます) :)
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby keatonatron » Wed 08.19.2009 7:51 pm

To reinforce what NileCat said...

すぐ is an adverb describing 買う. It has no relation whatsoever to verb+て.
You can even split up the sentence (こちらに来て、すぐ買った) and the meaning would not change.
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby space_bubble » Thu 08.20.2009 6:47 am

NileCat wrote:Yes. They mean same. And every sentence sounds natural.
日本語で書きます。
ニュアンスの問題は、文脈(context)によると思いますが、

「私もこちらに来てすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
もっともシンプルな表現です。

「私もこちらに来たすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
いつ買ったのか? を正確に強調する意図を感じます。

「私もこちらに来たすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
来る前 でなく 来た後 であることを明示することによって、「すぐ」を強調しています。

「私もこちらに来てからすぐ携帯電話を買いました」
来た後すぐ とほとんど同じ印象を受けます。

意味は同じです。
ニュアンスの差も、非常にわずかです。また、その差は、人によって受け止め方が違うでしょう。
文体の差(stylistic variation)と言っていいと思います。

(私は文法学者ではないので、異論反論は甘んじて受けます) :)

Your explanation is excellent, being so detailed. I studied it carefully and put it in my notebook. The comparisons for each is what really lights the lightbulb of understanding. I didn't get the likes of [ . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .] before, but I definitely get this usage now. :D
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby space_bubble » Thu 08.20.2009 7:01 am

keatonatron wrote:To reinforce what NileCat said...

すぐ is an adverb describing 買う. It has no relation whatsoever to verb+て.
You can even split up the sentence (こちらに来て、すぐ買った) and the meaning would not change.


Like, that's excellent. I'd say that with your explanation and the other answers, my question has been answered most understandably to me of all questions I ever asked in any forum. :D

This forum is great -- Da Bomb. I read a "coffee shop" Japanese forum from time to time that is somewhat intellectual, but this forum is like being able to learn at a university level.
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby keatonatron » Thu 08.20.2009 9:59 am

Thank you for such positive feedback!

The regular members here really appreciate hearing comments like those. It shows that we're doing our jobs well :D (now if we could just get paid for doing our jobs....)
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby two_heads_talking » Fri 08.21.2009 12:25 pm

keatonatron wrote:Thank you for such positive feedback!

The regular members here really appreciate hearing comments like those. It shows that we're doing our jobs well :D (now if we could just get paid for doing our jobs....)


we are volunteers, so, it's not really a job and thus, not really of merit to receiving pay..
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Re: . . . に来てすぐ携帯. . .

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.21.2009 6:03 pm

Way to overanalyze an offhand joke :roll:
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