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雨が降ってきたので・・・・

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雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby furrykef » Thu 08.20.2009 11:56 pm

I'm a little unclear on the meaning of "きた" in this sentence:

雨が降ってきたので傘を差しました。

This sentence (which I got from smart.fm) was translated as, "I opened my umbrella as it started to rain."

Does the きた mean "started to"? Maybe it's like, "It came to rain, so I opened my umbrella"?

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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 08.21.2009 12:02 am

It indicates the direction of the action, that is to say that the rain is coming towards the speaker.

Perhaps, "The rain came down, so I opened my umbrella." or something similar if you want a slightly more literal translation.
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.21.2009 12:03 am

Ahhh. Thanks :)
Last edited by furrykef on Fri 08.21.2009 12:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.21.2009 12:05 am

Is the きた required, then? Would leaving it out imply that it's raining somewhere other than where the speaker is, for instance?
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 08.21.2009 12:13 am

furrykef wrote:Is the きた required, then? Would leaving it out imply that it's raining somewhere other than where the speaker is, for instance?


Hmmm.... I want to revise my first answer. The きた gives it a sense of immediacy; that it just began to rain, whereas if you just had 降った it could be talking about a time in the past.
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.21.2009 12:27 am

Hmm... so it's like 降っていた, but with a sense of direction, perhaps? Or is it more like "the rain came down", but "came down" is seen as an event rather than a general condition?
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 08.21.2009 12:35 am

furrykef wrote:Hmm... so it's like 降っていた, but with a sense of direction, perhaps?


Not really. 降っていた indicates a sense of duration, while 降って来た indicates the beginning of the action/event + direction. There are a lot of situations where you can use V+来る or V+行く to indicate that the action is coming towards or going away from the speaker.

i.e. (彼は)こっちへ走ってきている vs. (彼は)あっちへ走っていっている.
OR 近づいてくる vs. 遠ざかっていく
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.21.2009 12:38 am

OK, so, it emphasizes direction and the start of the event? If, hypothetically, rain fell up instead of down, you would say 降って行った (never mind that "falling up" doesn't make sense, I'm just trying to get a sense of the grammar here ^^;)?

EDIT: Or maybe if you were above the clouds, in an airplane, perhaps, so that down would be away from you?
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 08.21.2009 12:48 am

That sounds about right. 降っていった just sounds weird because of the physics of the thing, but with other verbs it works just fine.
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.21.2009 12:51 am

Hmm, OK. Thanks! :)
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby NocturnalOcean » Fri 08.21.2009 3:08 am

kuru is usually used with て to indicate either a beginning of a process, or continuation of an action up to a current point of time.

Examples from DBJG:

私はコンピューターが少しわかってきた
Now I have begun to understand computers
私はいろいろ日本の歴史を読んできた
Up to now I've been reading various Japanese histories

Also, kuru of this usage can be paraphrased using Vmasu hajimeru.
But kuru implies that something happens to the speaker or whomever the speaker can empathize with, and Vmasu hajimeru lacks the speaker's involvement.
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby furrykef » Fri 08.21.2009 3:11 am

So then it doesn't have to do with the direction of the rainfall? :?
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby NocturnalOcean » Fri 08.21.2009 3:19 am

Kuru can be used with directions too, but I do believe in your case it doesn't really have to do with direction, but with the beginning of the rain, and that it is somewhat related to the speaker.(he is close by and affected by it)
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby Yudan Taiteki » Fri 08.21.2009 8:01 am

furrykef wrote:So then it doesn't have to do with the direction of the rainfall? :?


No. In some cases きた indicates literal direction towards the speaker, but not here.
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Re: 雨が降ってきたので・・・・

Postby becki_kanou » Fri 08.21.2009 10:12 am

The more I think about it, Yudan is correct; I was wrong in my first assessment. Sorry. :oops:
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