Creating Compound Verbs

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Cillranchello
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Creating Compound Verbs

Post by Cillranchello » Fri 09.11.2009 7:15 pm

Is it acceptable to create compound verbs on the fly to serve one's needs, or do you need to go a round-about way to do so?

For example, lets say I wanted to say "to try to pull," would 試み引くbe acceptable? Or is there some other method necessary? I've learned from Lang-8 that in order to say "can or cannot do verb" the format is Verbこと出来ません.

In the case of "try to pull" would I have to use 試みること引く?Or would Verb stem + verb also be acceptable?
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Yudan Taiteki
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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Fri 09.11.2009 7:17 pm

Generally you cannot create your own compound verbs, except with a very limited number of verbs that can combine freely.

"Try to pull" is 引いてみる. The ~てみる construction is what you need for that.
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jimbreen
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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by jimbreen » Fri 09.11.2009 8:21 pm

Yudan Taiteki wrote:Generally you cannot create your own compound verbs, except with a very limited number of verbs that can combine freely.
While I generally agree with the advice - stick to the trusted ones like 過ぎる, 始める, 続ける, etc.
the evidence is that Japanese people actually create and use masses of 含合同誌, many/most of which don't appear in dictionaries. The good kokugo dictionaries usually list around 4k compound verbs, but I have found about 40k compound verbs being used in the WWW and other texts. Many of these are only used in a few places and are obviously created on-the-fly, but they are plainly real compound verbs. It seems to be a bit more dynamic that many people think, especially when people are blogging, etc.

I have a paper in preparation on this. Once it's finished, submitted, etc. I can point to it.

Jim

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Infidel
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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by Infidel » Fri 09.11.2009 8:25 pm

Unless you're using the idiom, "What are you trying to pull." Then you probably want to say something completely different.
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Yudan Taiteki
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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Fri 09.11.2009 9:16 pm

jimbreen wrote:
Yudan Taiteki wrote:Generally you cannot create your own compound verbs, except with a very limited number of verbs that can combine freely.
While I generally agree with the advice - stick to the trusted ones like 過ぎる, 始める, 続ける, etc.
the evidence is that Japanese people actually create and use masses of 含合同誌, many/most of which don't appear in dictionaries.
Yeah, by "you" up there I meant "learners of Japanese as a second language".
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Cillranchello
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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by Cillranchello » Fri 09.11.2009 11:29 pm

jimbreen wrote:
Yudan Taiteki wrote:Generally you cannot create your own compound verbs, except with a very limited number of verbs that can combine freely.
While I generally agree with the advice - stick to the trusted ones like 過ぎる, 始める, 続ける, etc.
the evidence is that Japanese people actually create and use masses of 含合同誌, many/most of which don't appear in dictionaries. The good kokugo dictionaries usually list around 4k compound verbs, but I have found about 40k compound verbs being used in the WWW and other texts. Many of these are only used in a few places and are obviously created on-the-fly, but they are plainly real compound verbs. It seems to be a bit more dynamic that many people think, especially when people are blogging, etc.

I have a paper in preparation on this. Once it's finished, submitted, etc. I can point to it.

Jim
I'd greatly enjoy reading this when you've completed it. I've got a bit of an interest in linguistics.

But, thanks for the enlightenment. I haven't learned the ~てみる form yet. Now, the みる of ~てみる, is that an ichidan verb or godan verb?
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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by furrykef » Sat 09.12.2009 12:29 am

It's the same as the verb 見る, so it's ichidan. Occasionally you may see it written in kanji, but auxiliary verbs are usually written in kana.
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Cillranchello
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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by Cillranchello » Sun 09.13.2009 4:24 am

Ahh, makes sense.

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Re: Creating Compound Verbs

Post by XJTA » Thu 09.17.2009 12:51 am

jimbreen wrote:含合同誌
You appear to have made a bit of a conversion error there.

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