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Hiragana vs Kanji.....

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Re: Hiragana vs Kanji.....

Postby phreadom » Mon 11.02.2009 11:09 pm

(Disclaimer: I'm falling asleep and thus a little grumpy. Take my comments with a grain of salt in light of that.)

My issue with Cillranchello's attitude was the immediate dismissal of the entire thread as "prick-waving" rather than any kind of informed debate, the attitude that no learning method was any better than any other, and that somehow anyone arguing anything to the contrary was an idiot... and the snarky remarks like "Oh, and Sairana, not fixt, better luck next time." etc. The general disdain for people who actually do know what they're talking about, and the attitude of "well X was completely obvious to me, so your argument is completely wrong." or "well, there must be no quantifiable measure for any learning system because Y worked fine for me, so I declare that no system is, or can be argued to be, any better than any other, so nobody should say anything further because I have spoken."

I might also comment that I note a lot of 4chan type slang being used as well, which makes me question the maturity of the poster.

I'm not really qualified to weigh in on the technical merits of this thread (as I'm still essentially a beginner about half way through my Genki 1 textbook), but I know a bad attitude when I see one. Thus my remark about a possible ban wasn't about people having a debate... it was about the readily apparent bad attitude of one poster in particular in contrast with the rest of the thread before that person started posting. I think others up until that point had been very careful to clarify about things like "just because this method works for me doesn't mean it will work for you" etc... and tried to offer helpful information, acknowledge the different points etc, even while still trying to promote what they saw as the merit of one system over another etc. I don't see that as "prick-waving", but with people honestly trying to figure out what the best learning system over-all might be.

Sure one method might "click" better with one person more than another... for instance I'm pretty sure RTK isn't for me because I like being able to use what I learn as I learn it... and as a slow learner I'd be wasting a year or more trying to learn the RTK stuff probably, not to mention that it would crush my motivation, and that's the last thing I want.

What the people were doing in my opinion was giving their opinions and others giving counter opinions... and then someone comes in and essentially says "you're all totally wrong and just prick waving and now I'm going to speak and tell you all how it really is... silly little children." and does so while using condescending language, 4chan language, etc...

There are no lolcats here. This thread isn't full of "win" or "fail". And while I saw people debating a little, I didn't see any "prick-waving" going on. And I think what bugs me most is the claim that people were somehow trying to completely negate one method or another when I'm pretty sure the exact opposite was happening and people were making it clear that a method might work better FOR YOU, but that in general there were known shortcomings to certain methods, some of which had been mitigated with other supplemental methods which were also covered. They were trying to debate the pros and cons of certain methods, both as presented, as hybrids etc... and you seemed to come in and do nothing but reiterate what they'd already said, claim they hadn't said it, accused them of prick-waving and general juvenile behavior, use a bunch of 4chan-speak, and act like you're the only one who "gets it" by making some seemingly erroneous statements on top of the reiterations of previous comments... it was the sum of all those little things that pushed it a little far. Any one of them probably wouldn't even have been noticed much, if at all... but all of them together made it stand out a little, at least to me and a few others.

I'm too tired to bother trying to explain it further. It's just derailing the thread further. Sorry everyone.
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Re: Hiragana vs Kanji.....

Postby Cillranchello » Tue 11.03.2009 12:51 am

Since my original meaning has been understood, I have only one question now.

What is 4chan?
私は眠いユダヤ人です。
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Re: Hiragana vs Kanji.....

Postby magamo » Tue 11.03.2009 2:09 am

Cillranchello wrote:What is 4chan?

While I don't think it's a good thing to bring up a particular website when claiming that a person's language sounds immature or think you particularly sounded like one of the users of said image boards, I don't think the way you put your ideas to words endears you either. But then again, I'm learning English, so maybe you sounded a little immature because of my poor grasp of the English language.

If you want to discuss how to learn a language/kanji/whatever and don't want to waste your precious time, why don't you do it in Japanese? That way you can always be productive. If you search English learners' forums in Japan, probably there are threads where Japanese guys are arguing about better ways to improve vocabulary such as "You gotta learn Latin roots first. Whoever disagrees with me is a fa**ot. Oh, don't forget to memorize prefixes and suffixes." You can jump in and give an insight from a native speaker's perspective. Maybe you can talk about pros and cons of RtK and the context based learning; that'll be interesting because there is a certain similarity between meanings of kanji and etymologies of English lexis. It may just be me, but isn't it better to discuss language learning methods while improving your Japanese and getting feedback from native speakers?

This works. I can tell from my experie... Wait. Maybe it doesn't work for you; different methods work for different people. But if you've already learned Japanese for more than 4 years, I recommend you use your Japanese skills and knowledge about language learning to help English learners in Japan. It might not work very well, but you can always give it a shot, right? It seems to me you're wasting your time that could be spent on learning Japanese.


Edit: I brought up this go-to-Japanese-forums idea because it doesn't seem you're contributing to this thread in a meaningful way. I'm not saying anyone shouldn't talk about learning method and stuff. I respect members who have made helpful posts.


Oh, and to answer your rhetorical question, it's notorious image boards where people anonymously spout memes that look like

i think cillranchello is a pretty cool guy. eh trolls the mod and doesn't afraid of anything
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
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Re: Hiragana vs Kanji.....

Postby phreadom » Tue 11.03.2009 4:04 am

Cillranchello wrote:Since my original meaning has been understood, I have only one question now.

What is 4chan?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat

Cillranchello wrote:Instead of prick-waiving, suggest the following: "I learned Kanji this way. It helped me learns teh Kanji, but that guy over thar used this way, and it helped him learns teh Kanji. Try both and see what way makes you learns teh Kanji bettar!"


Cillranchello wrote:Just because two teaching methods exist doesn't mean that one is win and the other is fail, it just means there are two teaching methods.


I find it incredibly hard to believe that you had no idea what 4chan is given that you're using slang that comes directly from it, and your question about it illustrates the epitome of trolling, from one of the primary sources of modern trolling. Not to mention that a few seconds on Google would have answered the question.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=4chan

While most webmasters and forum administrators consider trolls to be a scourge on their sites, some websites welcome them. For example, a New York Times article discussed troll activity at the /b/ board on 4chan and at Encyclopedia Dramatica, which it described as "an online compendium of troll humor and troll lore."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28I ... roll_sites

To illustrate what I mean about your question...

art-form.jpg
art-form.jpg (78.58 KiB) Viewed 707 times


Asking a question which you either obviously know the answer to, or could have answered for yourself in a matter of seconds, just to get someone to "feed the troll" by taking their time to type it out for you, is either trolling, or a lazy idiot. Your "What is 4chan?" question, after showing that you are perfectly internet literate, is really no different than moot's statement in the comic strip above of "Trolling is a art.", which is essentially guaranteed to evoke a response to correct the clear grammatical error, thus feeding the troll. There is nobody on the net today (short of possibly small children, the elderly, and the severely mentally challenged) who doesn't either know what 4chan is, or could find out for themselves in seconds.

With that said, if I get even the slightest whiff of trolling from you after this post... nah, forget it.

Banned (temporarily).

If and when you come back, please leave your 4chan-esque attitude behind (whether or not that's where it came from). Thread done and locked.
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