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Just trying out a few sentences

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Just trying out a few sentences

Postby Flame Haze » Sat 10.03.2009 8:45 am

Just want to test a few sentences after learning past and present tenses. Correct me if i am wrong.

First example

Present positive

Watashi wa nihongo o hanasemasu

Present negative

watashi wa nihongo o hanasanai

Past positve

watashi wa nihongo o hanasida

Past negative

watashi wa nihongo o hanasanakatta


Second example

Present positive

Watashi wa malaysia-jin desu.

Present negative

Watashi wa nihon-jin jyanai

Past Positive

Watashi wa malaysia-jin deshita

Past negative

Watashi wa nihon-jin jyarimasen deshita (or is it jyanakatta?)



Try explaining to me about the past, present, positive, negative tenses of desu since i'm not very sure.

Arigatou gozaimasu.

P.S Sorry for typing in romaji, but i lazy to remember which keyboard letter stands for which hiragana...forgive me >.<
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby astaroth » Sat 10.03.2009 9:34 am

Flame Haze wrote:First example

Why do you switch from 話せる (hanaseru - to be able to speak) to 話す (hanasu - to speak)?
hanaseru - hanasenai - hanaseta - hanasenakatta
hanasu - hanasanai - hanashita - hanasanakatta
Flame Haze wrote:Second example

Some are in polite speech, some are in informal speech ...
(polite) desu - deha arimasen - deshita - deha arimasendeshita
(informal) da - janai - datta - janakatta

Flame Haze wrote:arigatou gozaimasu

I think it should be douzo yoroshiku (onegaishimasu) if you want to "thank in advance".
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby Flame Haze » Sun 10.04.2009 3:40 am

astaroth wrote:
Flame Haze wrote:First example

Why do you switch from 話せる (hanaseru - to be able to speak) to 話す (hanasu - to speak)?
hanaseru - hanasenai - hanaseta - hanasenakatta
hanasu - hanasanai - hanashita - hanasanakatta
Flame Haze wrote:Second example

Some are in polite speech, some are in informal speech ...
(polite) desu - deha arimasen - deshita - deha arimasendeshita
(informal) da - janai - datta - janakatta

Flame Haze wrote:arigatou gozaimasu

I think it should be douzo yoroshiku (onegaishimasu) if you want to "thank in advance".


Thanks.

Got confused...

I think i saw examples somewhere else using dewanai...does it stand for deha arimasendeshita?
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby Flame Haze » Sun 10.04.2009 4:25 am

So are these correct?

kiku kikimasu-kikanai-kiita-kikanakatta
tatu tatimasu-tatanai-tatta-tatanakatta
hanasu hanashimasu-hanasanai-hanashita-hanasanakatta
uru urimasu-uranai-utta-uranakatta
arau araimasu-aranai-aratta-aranakatta
tobu tobimasu-tobanai-tonda-tobanakatta
yomu yomimasu-yomanai-yonda-yomanakatta
oyogu oyogimasu-oyoganai-oyoida-oyoganakatta
miru mimasu-minai-mita-minakatta
shinu shimasu-shinai-shita-shinakatta
otiru otimasu-otinai-otita-otinakatta
taberu tabemasu-tabenai-tabeta-tabenakatta
suru shimasu-shinai-shita-shinakatta
kuru kimasu-konai-kita-konakatta

Not sure for kuru and suru, someone help me thx.
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby furrykef » Sun 10.04.2009 6:56 am

Just to make sure you fully understand, the polite form of a verb always uses -masu (or the inflected forms -mashita, -masen), and the plain form never does. (Da/desu isn't really considered a verb -- it's a copula -- so it's an exception to that rule.)

Plain:
hanasu, hanasanai, hanashita, hanasanakatta

Polite:
hanashimasu, hanashimasen, hanashimashita, hanashimasen deshita

It might be that you already understood this perfectly, it's just that it wasn't really clear from your sentences and conjugation tables. :)


I think i saw examples somewhere else using dewanai...does it stand for deha arimasendeshita?


"Dewa nai" is the negative form of "da". It is the plain form of "dewa arimasen" (everywhere "arimasen" is used in the polite form, "nai" is used in the plain form). In both cases, in speech and casual (not formal) writing, "dewa" can be contracted to "ja", much like how phrases like "does not" become "doesn't" in English.

Note that the "deha" in astaroth's examples is actually pronounced "dewa"; for some reason, astaroth was using the kana spelling rather than the actual pronunciation. So "deha [arimasen]" and "dewa [arimasen]" are the same thing, both pronounced the same way ("dewa") and written the same way (では - deha).


arau araimasu-aranai-aratta-aranakatta


The negative forms should be "arawanai" and "arawanakatta". Remember that "u" becomes "wa" when forming negatives.

shinu shimasu-shinai-shita-shinakatta


The past tense of "shinu" is "shinda". ("Shita" is the past tense of "suru".)

Not sure for kuru and suru, someone help me thx.


You got them both right. :) I'd advise against using abbreviations such as "thx" on this forum, though; they sound too much like text-speak for our tastes. (I don't mind too much, but other people might.)

Aside from these, I found no mistakes. Your romanization is a bit unusual (for instance writing "otiru" instead of "ochiru"), but that's not a problem as long as you pronounce it correctly.

Note that there are two more irregular verbs (irregular forms in bold):

aru, arimasu, nai, atta, nakatta
iku, ikimasu, ikanai, itta, ikanakatta

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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby astaroth » Sun 10.04.2009 8:46 am

You may want to check this for an explanation on how to make the past form. This guide presents the plain (informal) form before the polite, so be careful not to mix them up.
furrykef wrote:Note that the "deha" in astaroth's examples is actually pronounced "dewa"; for some reason, astaroth was using the kana spelling rather than the actual pronunciation. So "deha [arimasen]" and "dewa [arimasen]" are the same thing, both pronounced the same way ("dewa") and written the same way (では - deha).

I'm so accustomed to the kana spelling that I didn't even notice it. Sorry for adding confusion.
By the way about typing in kana, you (@Flame Haze) don't have to "memorize a kana keyboard" to write in Japanese. Most people type writing in romaji and the os takes care of the transliteration. How to set this up depends on your os. On a Mac it's the default choice (I think ... I don't remember how I set it up anymore), on Windows I don't know ... (haven't used Windows in years)
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby Flame Haze » Mon 10.05.2009 5:26 am

What about iru?

And thanks to astaroth and furikef for helping :)

should this be written in hiragana as :

astarothとfurikefをありがとうございます?
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby furrykef » Mon 10.05.2009 5:54 am

Flame Haze wrote:What about iru?


I'm not sure what you're asking. If you're asking if it's an irregular verb, it's not:

iru, inai, ita, inakatta. Same pattern as ochiru. :)

should this be written in hiragana as :

astarothとfurikefをありがとうございます?


I'd simply write, astarothさんとfurrykefさん、ありがとうございます!

The phrase ありがとうございます can't take the particle を, because ございます is not a transitive verb. It might take the particle に, but I have no idea.

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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby NocturnalOcean » Mon 10.05.2009 7:51 am

Actually, ありがとうございます is very often used with を.
Not sure it can be used with people, but at least other things.

いつもかわいいお話をありがとうございます
感想をありがとうございます

and so forth
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby astaroth » Mon 10.05.2009 8:56 am

NocturnalOcean wrote:Actually, ありがとうございます is very often used with を.
Not sure it can be used with people, but at least other things.

Methinks the only case one would use ありがとうございます with people is to thank someone for something they've done, so wouldn't that be require は? (Though most of the times that particle is suppressed.)
For instance, NocturnalOceanさんは、上手い説明をありがとう。
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby NileCat » Mon 10.05.2009 9:47 am

astaroth wrote:Methinks the only case one would use ありがとうございます with people is to thank someone for something they've done, so wouldn't that be require は? (Though most of the times that particle is suppressed.)
For instance, NocturnalOceanさんは、上手い説明をありがとう。

"さんは" sounds strange to us for some reason.
NocturnalOceanさん、上手い説明をありがとうございます。is the most common expression.
NocturnalOceanさんは説明が上手いですね! ありがとう! is the casual way.
NocturnalOceanさんの上手い説明に感謝します。 sounds...what do you call it...platform speech ?

NOTE:
Just for your information, grammatically, we have this form.
NocturnalOceanさんにおかれましては、詳細なご説明を頂きまして誠にありがとうございます。
But it sounds tooooo polite and kind of archaic. We usually don't use this form.
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby furrykef » Mon 10.05.2009 5:00 pm

Hmm. So ありがとうございます can take を after all? Very strange... it doesn't make any sense to me, but sometimes language doesn't. :lol:
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby NileCat » Mon 10.05.2009 5:20 pm

プレゼントをありがとうございます。
---> プレゼント(を私にくれたこと)を、「ありがたい」と思います。

上手い説明をありがとうございます。
---> 上手い説明(をしてくれたこと)を、ありがたいと思います。
---> 上手い説明を、ありがとう。

Strictly speaking, ありがとう originally means "it's rare to happen" (有り難い)
On the other hand, "thank you" means I-thank-you. Very different, isn't it?

furrykefさんのプレゼントは、とても有り難かったです。
furrykdfさん、プレゼントをありがとうございました。
furrykefさんは、プレゼントを下さるなんて、本当に優しい人だ。ありがとうございます。
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby Flame Haze » Tue 10.06.2009 4:05 am

Thanks guys. :lol:

Finally i can understand simple japanese sentences :D

Any idea where i can find some vocab to read up? My vocab sucks. >.<
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Re: Just trying out a few sentences

Postby furrykef » Tue 10.06.2009 4:12 am

Don't look at me, my vocab sucks too. :lol:
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