彼は彼で

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Seanver
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彼は彼で

Post by Seanver » Thu 10.08.2009 4:13 pm

I can't really understand the usage of N + は +N + で, such as 彼は彼で, これはこれで..., etc. I find that construction often in novels that I read in Japanese, but can't really get how it's used. My best guess based on the construction itself, should be that it's meanign something like "since it's precisely him", etc., but well, it's just a random guess

Unfortunately, since it's a very short construction using such common particles, it's also really difficult to find any information anywhere whether on the net or in books/dictionaries

I'll appreciate any info on this, thanks

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Yudan Taiteki
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Re: 彼は彼で

Post by Yudan Taiteki » Thu 10.08.2009 4:39 pm

Seanver wrote:I can't really understand the usage of N + は +N + で, such as 彼は彼で, これはこれで..., etc. I find that construction often in novels that I read in Japanese, but can't really get how it's used. My best guess based on the construction itself, should be that it's meanign something like "since it's precisely him", etc., but well, it's just a random guess

Unfortunately, since it's a very short construction using such common particles, it's also really difficult to find any information anywhere whether on the net or in books/dictionaries

I'll appreciate any info on this, thanks
The で is just the -te form of だ, so this is 彼は彼だ (He is him), connected to another sentence. Usually it's used to say something like "That's one thing, and this is another." For instance, if a character asks "why are you so mean to me and nice to him?" the person might respond 彼は彼で、お前はお前だ as kind of a dodge answer.
-Chris Kern

NileCat
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Re: 彼は彼で

Post by NileCat » Thu 10.08.2009 5:06 pm

And another example would be:
彼は彼でうまくやっているらしい。(He too is doing well, I heard so.)
He is one thing (a person) who is doing well. ( and this (I) is another one doing well.)

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Hyperworm
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Re: 彼は彼で

Post by Hyperworm » Thu 10.08.2009 5:11 pm

It does have idiomatic usage that's difficult to understand as "XはXだ + another sentence".

Does it really mean 「彼も」? ._.
The way I've understood it (perhaps wrongly?) is as something like "in itself" / "in its own way" / "with its own things".

これはこれでかわいいかも "maybe it's kind of cute in its own way"
彼は彼で忙しい "he's busy with his own stuff / he has himself to think about"

Hm. OP, if you could post some specific examples ...
fun translation snippets | need something translated?
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NileCat
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Re: 彼は彼で

Post by NileCat » Thu 10.08.2009 5:23 pm

Hmm..I know what you mean. It's interesting.

彼は彼で忙しい sounds it has 彼も feeling to me.

「誰も手伝える人がいないね。そうだ、彼に頼もうか?」
「いや、彼は彼で忙しいから」

これはこれでかわいいかも

「あ、あれの方がかわいくない?」
「いや、これはこれでかわいいかも」

This expression always needs something to be compared with.
Hmm...
Last edited by NileCat on Thu 10.08.2009 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NileCat
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Re: 彼は彼で

Post by NileCat » Thu 10.08.2009 6:28 pm

Hyperworm wrote: Does it really mean 「彼も」? ._.
The way I've understood it (perhaps wrongly?) is as something like "in itself" / "in its own way" / "with its own things".
I kind of examined the proper usage of the expression on the internet.
You are absolutely right! Sorry for confusing you!

(I had understood it slightly differently. :roll:)
Omg, I think that my Japanese has been getting worse lately. :oops:

Seanver
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Re: 彼は彼で

Post by Seanver » Thu 10.15.2009 6:04 am

It's quite clear now. In fact I remember having read, precisely, 彼は彼で忙しい, and I think that makes sense. Basically, you are comparing how busy he is with, for example, how busy yourself, people, etc, are too.

説明してくれてありがとうございます!

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