NileCat wrote:Magamo, can I ask you just one thing?
I know it might sound very rude. But I think I'd be allowed to be a little bit impolite just this once.
My question is; Are you a returnee ? (帰国子女?)
No. I've been living in the US for only 2 months. Native speakers should be able to pick up my idiosyncrasies. Actually I just read some of my own posts again and found several errors.
Sairana wrote:I still don't really understand how you propose people study Japanese.
I don't say you should follow what I did or think you'd take this seriously, but this is how I learned English:
I started learning English at school like your average Japanese. I flunked my English class at university (I got tripped up by French too). By the time I entered grad school, I think I knew basics like "go-went-gone," "I thought he WAS Japanese," etc. I guess I knew the basic meanings of a few thousands English words, thought I only knew Japanese equivalents of them. I'm pretty sure Google translator made much more sense than me back then. I'm guessing a serious Japanese learner who finished a series of textbooks would speak better that my English back then. If you know what the average college graduate's English in Japan is like, that's pretty much what my English was like. I might be slightly better than the average, but I don't think native speakers would have noticed the difference.
English has never been my top priority, but I was looking for a good learning method. And I came across this video about 2 years ago: AJATT guy speaking in Japanese
Ah, if you're a native Japanese speaker and haven't watched this, you should check it out. He says in his blog that he had been learning Japanese for 4 years or so at that time. I was amazed by his Japanese (Who wouldn't?) and started reading his blog using a dictionary. It took several months to read through the main blog posts, but as I read about his theory, I had come to think I might give it a shot.
I do think he's exaggerating, and I'm not gullible enough to believe everything a random blogger says. Actually he claims he reached fluency in 18 moths from scratch. I don't buy that. But it seems to me that his methods like SRS, immersion, etc. are very effective. It seems working for me, though it's not as fast as it's advertised. I should have had a head-start in the sense that I already got basics down. But I can't say I'm fluent in English yet. I don't know how long I can improve my English at this rate either.
But if I went the immersion method and SRSing from day one, maybe in conjunction with a basic textbook, I honestly believe it wouldn't have taken more than, say, 4 years to be as good (bad?) as my English I'm speaking right now, thought I NEVER say it's easy to learn a language. Also, everyday I have to correct myself because I learned so many wrong explanations from textbooks and teachers. It's still hurting my language skills significantly. I must admit that grammar/translation I had learned might have been helping in a way I don't notice. It's not easy to tell what actually worked.
Sairana wrote:Do you have an alternate suggestion?
I don't want to be rude or anything, but, um, to me your entire post sounds like you're explaining how your proposing method doesn't work... "I recommended this! We could let them memorize a bunch of set phrases!! But they fail!!!" Doesn't it sound like it's the method that's the culprit? Hmm... If you gave some examples of people who achieve fluency, then it's a different story though. But you just described how they failed...
Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not saying it's necessarily bad. If you think it should work and it's the people that's the reason, then it may be. I just think language learning should be fun and effective.
hyperconjugated wrote:[...]Right now you have stepped on toes of few regulars(who contribute considerably here) and that's a big no-no, like in most forums.
I think I understand what I have done. I don't want people who are learning my mother tongue to be discouraged or leave here. I'm not sure if I should delete my posts, but mods will do it if they're inappropriate and against this site's culture.
Anyway, thank you all for your feedback. It was interesting. Oh, and you don't need to take this post seriously if you don't want to. If it's working for you, I never ever say you should stop what you're doing. If it works, the method doesn't matter at all.