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small questions

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small questions

Postby meganliu » Wed 04.21.2010 8:35 am

みなさん、お久しぶりです。まだ、いくつの問題を持ってここに来ました。教えてもらえませんか?

1.「運動ばかりの話」と「運動の話ばかり」は、どちらが正しいですか?それとも、両方とも正しいですか?もし同じ意味、どう違いますか?

2.どこかで「よろしゅう」と「ひさしゅう」を見ました。「よろしく」と「ひさしぶり」という意味ですか?As in 「よろしゅうお願いします」と「ひさしゅうですね」。丁寧な日本語ですか?どんな場合で使うのがいいですか?

3.「行かなきゃ」と「行かなくちゃ」は同じ意味ですか?たとえば、「そろそろ授業が始まりますので、行かなきゃ」と「そろそろ授業が始まりますので、行かなくちゃ」は同じ意味の表現ですか?

4.「誓約をなせり、この男女の夫婦たる宣言をします。じゃ、指輪の交換を。」
このセンテンスの「なせり」はわかりません。どんな意味でしょうか。

5.「私は感動的です。」を話すのは大丈夫ですか?「感動的」は人間でも、ものでも、使いますか?「この本は感動的です。」が正しいのを知りますが、「私は感動的です。」は大丈夫かどうかよく分りません。

6.「You should be proud of yourself] は、日本語で何と言いますか?

7.最後の質問です。「Japanese-American」「 Chinese-American」など、そういう感じな表現は日本語でなんで言いますか?

いきなりたくさんの問題を聞きまして、すみません。
時間があれば、答えてくれませんか?
ありがとうございます。 :)

( trying to describe my questions in Japanese. 大変でした。なかなか、よくできませんが。)
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Re: small questions

Postby kurisuto » Wed 04.21.2010 5:33 pm

1) 運動ばかりの話 would be used to refer to a story whose only subject is sports ; 運動の話ばかり would be used in a situation where there are a lot of stories and that they're all about sports (or that the speaker subjectively presents the situation like this). It seems to both have a pejorative nuance.

2) These are adverbial forms, but they're archaic. As you rightly guessed, よろしゅう is equivalent to よろしく, but ひさしゅう = ひさしい.

I think I've only seen these forms used with ございます to turn i-adjectives into keigo : よろしゅうございます, for instance, but there are others much more frequent, like ありがとう, おはよう, おめでとう (from ありがたい, はやい and めでたい respectively).

Here's how they work : first, you have to distinguish the 2 different kinds of i-adjectives. In bungo, we call them シク活用 and ク活用, and correspond respectively to adjectives like よろしい (it used to be よろし) and 早い (早し), i.e those that on the one hand end in しい, and those that end in い in the modern language.

Then : シク : the しい part becomes しゅう. e.g 美しい = 美しゅう, よろしい = よろしゅう.
ク : the vowel that precedes い becomes おう. e.g 高い = 高う (たこう) ; ありがたい = ありがとう ; わるい = わるう ; 面白い = おもしろう.

They all underwent a regular evolution : よろし > よろしく (adverbial form) > よろしう (the "k" was dropped, a phenomenon that can be seen in a lot of words, like 働く > 働きて> 働いて) > よろしゅう (いう becoming ゆう [and a specific case of that is しう > しゅう] is also a regular phonetic evolution) > よろしゅう.

For ク : たかし > たかく > たかう ("k" dropped) > たこう (あう > おう is yet another regular phonetic change, as in 働く > はたらかう > 働こう).

3) Same meaning, different origins : 行かなきゃ is a contraction of 行かなければ(ならない), while 行かなくちゃ comes from 行かなくては(ならない). As a side note, 行かなければ can also be contracted to 行かなけりゃ, although I think I read somewhere it's outdated.

4) り is a 助動詞 that comes from bungo ; it marks the perfective aspect (ている or た in modern Japanese)... There are other り in bungo ; I think it's this one but I'm not sure.

5) With objects it's safe (although この本は感動的だ doesn't seem natural to me ; weirdly, I feel like 感動的な本 works better), but not with humans.

6) From ALC : 自分に誇りを持ちなさい。

7) It works like this : name of the country of origin (or simply 日 in the case of Japan) + 系 (けい) + nationality. e.g 日系アメリカ人 ; 中国系アメリカ人.


I think you've made some mistakes ; here are some minor corrections :

meganliu wrote:みなさん、お久しぶりです。まだ[did you mean また ?]、いくつの問題を持って[問題があって ; it seems to me 問題を持つ is used for more serious problems, like health issues]ここに来ました。教えてもらえませんか?

1.「運動ばかりの話」と「運動の話ばかり」は、どちらが正しいですか?それとも、両方とも正しいですか?もし同じ意味[だったら]、どう違いますか?

2.どこかで「よろしゅう」と「ひさしゅう」を見ました。「よろしく」と「ひさしぶり」という意味ですか?As in 「よろしゅうお願いします」と「ひさしゅうですね」。丁寧な日本語ですか?どんな場合で使うのがいいです[使われます seems more natural to me]か?

3.「行かなきゃ」と「行かなくちゃ」は同じ意味ですか?たとえば、「そろそろ授業が始まります[I think 始まる would be better, since 始まりますので is rather polite ; it's weird to use 行かなきゃ in the same sentence]ので、行かなきゃ」と「そろそろ授業が始まります[same problem]ので、行かなくちゃ」は同じ意味の表現ですか?

4.「誓約をなせり、この男女の夫婦たる宣言をします。じゃ、指輪の交換を。」
このセンテンスの「なせり」はわかりません。どんな意味でしょうか。

5.「私は感動的です。」を話す[いう or 使う for instance would be better]のは大丈夫ですか?「感動的」は人間でも、ものでも、使いますか?「この本は感動的です。」が正しいのを知ります[知っています ; also, I think I would've said ...正しいというのは(よく)知っていますが, but I can't say whether 正しいのを知っていますが is a mistake]が、「私は感動的です。」は大丈夫かどうかよく分りません。

6.「You should be proud of yourself] は、日本語で何と言いますか?

7.最後の質問です。「Japanese-American」「 Chinese-American」など、そういう感じな[同じ感じの]表現は日本語でなんで[なんって or なんと]言いますか?

いきなりたくさんの問題[質問]を聞きまして[I guess that's fine, but if you're going to use -まして, which is quite formal, maybe you should change other parts, like 答えてくれませんか > 答えていただけませんか]、すみません。
時間があれば、答えてくれませんか?
ありがとうございます。 :)

( trying to describe my questions in Japanese. 大変でした。なかなか、よくできませんが。)


That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of my answers and corrections were wrong ; I answered in English precisely because I'm not that confident about my Japanese and that it would have taken me quite some time to write my message.

But I hope it helps nonetheless :D
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Re: small questions

Postby meganliu » Thu 04.22.2010 7:31 am

Thank you very much, Kurisuto San.

I didn't expect such a detailed explanation and corrections. I really appreciate it.

I can understand most of the parts, but still have problems with yoroshuu and hisashuu. As I have just been learning Japanese for about 1 year, I don't want to dig so deep right now. Is it a 1 kyuu grammar point? Sounds so difficult for me. If not, I think I' ll just leave it until I master all the basics.

And yeah, I often confuse the usages of mata and mada. Thanks for pointing it out. :)
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Re: small questions

Postby kurisuto » Thu 04.22.2010 9:17 am

You're welcome !

You've been studying for only one year ? Quite impressive, I must say... you should be proud of yourself ;)

As for よろしゅう : I don't think it's even part of the JLPT ; this grammar point (which is really a natural phonetic change called ウ音便) isn't very productive in the modern language, so it's more a question of vocabulary than grammar. From my (ridiculously little) experience, I would say it's very rare to encounter these forms (other than those in fixed expressions like ありがとう etc.), except maybe in jidaigeki, when used for comical purposes and in some dialects (I did some research, and apparently it still can be heard in Kansai). It's one of those things that, while being worth knowing, aren't necessarily useful in everyday life.
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Re: small questions

Postby meganliu » Sat 04.24.2010 1:38 am

Umm, got it. I met those expressions in some business conversations, so first I thought they were polite Japanese and usually used in formal occasions. Now seems like that this kind of expressions are not so commonly used and widely known, I will just forget it. :)
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