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ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

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ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby ryuubu » Mon 09.26.2005 8:46 pm

In Jim Breen's dictionary it refers to:

ヤ行 as Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "yu"

and so on.

Maybe I'm still a novice at this but I've never seen any verbs ending in any of these, nor learnt any conjugation rules for them. Is this just a hypothetical case? Or perhaps from Old Japanese?
B)
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby Kates » Mon 09.26.2005 9:00 pm

I'm not quite sure I understand your question at all... >_>

What does the ya-gyou (and the da- pa- (is that pa? or ba?) and na-gyou for that matter... in your title...?) have to do with YU-verbs...?

Are you asking if there ARE YU-verbs? Because if you are, then I'd have to say 'no there aren't'.... or maybe some really OLD Japanese verb... As far as I know there are only u, ku, ru, tsu, su, mu, and a single nu verb....

If that wasn't your question .... then, uh, try again.
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby Gaijinian » Mon 09.26.2005 9:12 pm

ヤ行 as Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "yu"
How odd, that kana reads "ya," not yu...
I know of no YU ending verbs...:(
The harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all.
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby ryuubu » Mon 09.26.2005 9:53 pm

Yes it is odd. Just making sure I'm not missing anything here.
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby zengargoyle » Mon 09.26.2005 10:06 pm

the CLASSICAL 01May00 V00-001 Classical Japanese-English Dictionary File Copyright Glenn Rosenthal - 2000 (from the EDICT site) has a few apparent yu/du/nu verbs, sorry no pu verbs...

老ゆ (おゆ) to age, to grow old (kamini); ;
消ゆ (きゆ) to go out, to vanish (kamini); ;
見ゆ (みゆ) to be seen, to be in sight, to look, to seem, to appear (shimoni); ;

出づ (いづ) to come out (shimoni); ;
愛づ (めづ) to love (shimoni); ;

往ぬ (いぬ) to disapear, to flee, to leave (nahen); ;
寝ぬ (いぬ) to lie down (shimoni); ;
恋ひ死ぬ (こひしぬ) to die for love, to become love sick and die (nahen); ;
尋ぬ (たづぬ) to seek for, to ask, to enquire (shimoni); ;
焼け死ぬ (やけしぬ) to burn to death (nahen); ;


since for example -ku verbs have conjugations on -ka -ki -ku -ke -ko it makes just as much sense to group them all as か行 instead of ク行, especially since か < ク.

行 (ぎょう) (n) (1) line; row; (2) verse; (P);

カ行 (カぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "ku";
ガ行 (ガぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "gu";
サ行 (サぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "su";
ザ行 (ザぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "zu";
タ行 (タぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "tsu";
ダ行 (ダぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "dzu";
ヌ行 (ヌぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "nu";
バ行 (バぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "bu";
マ行 (マぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "mu";
ヤ行 (ヤぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "yu";
ラ行 (ラぎょう) (n) Classification for Japanese verb with the dictionary form ending in "ru";

seems the ヌ行 classification is a typo or some other random bit of japanese wierdness...
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby Ensomniak86 » Tue 09.27.2005 2:19 am

How in the world did you hear about these verbs!? I wonder if the Japanese people themselves even use these things... :o
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby ryuubu » Fri 09.30.2005 2:34 am

How do you put those into te form? This confuses the hell out of me to think that I could go all this time without knowing this.
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby colind » Fri 09.30.2005 3:19 am

hehe its not such a big deal... like you said, they're old.
and those verbs above are from the classical dictionary.
so yeh... they're not used in modern japanese so you don't need to know them.
unless of course you're studying classic japanese. hehe if you are... 頑張って!
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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby InsanityRanch » Tue 10.04.2005 5:29 pm

I don't know a lot about this but...

When you look up verbs in the Kokugo (a standard Japanese-Japanese dictionary), often you find that there was an older spelling. For instance "iu" was written "ifu".

For that matter, many nouns also had different spellings. "onna" used to be "wonna". "kyou" used to be "kefu". (And there is an important poem that uses that form.)

Apparently these forms were in use until relatively recently. According to a novel I'm reading, the new (and familiar to us foreign learners) forms were introduced between school years during WWII, so in the late thirties or early forties.

I have also seen the old spellings in unedited stories written early in the twentieth century. For instance, if you look for Japanese lit on the web, you can find public domain versions of Akutagawa Ryuunosuke's stories. Now the versions of these I've seen in books are in modern Japanese bar a few odd kanji, but the ones on the web (which I assume have not been edited) feature these old spellings as well as frequent use of obsolete kanji.

All this has to do only with one recent reform in written (and spoken?) Japanese, and I am sure there have been earlier reforms as well. I suspect it's one of those long struggles -- somebody systematizes usage and ordinary people gradually de-systematize usage and the cycle repeats.

In any case, other than having a vague awareness that this has gone on over the years, I would say there is no real use to learning this stuff unless you plan to read Japanese classical literature not edited into modern Japanese. Personally, I ain't gonna be in that position for awhile... if ever.

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RE: ヤ行、ダ行、パ行、ナ行 etc.

Postby ryuubu » Tue 10.04.2005 11:01 pm

ほう〜〜〜〜

Maybe one day. I still find this interesting, though.
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