ga vs o

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Nodlain
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ga vs o

Post by Nodlain » Mon 09.13.2010 6:57 pm

On a different computer at this as otherwise I'd write this in Kanji/Hiragana...

onnanoko wa okaasan ga daisuki imasu

vs

ryuoshin wa kodomo tachi o daisuki imasu

Is 'ga' primarily used when an EXACT subject is defined, as in an individual, whereas 'o' is used for objects and 'groups' of people because they act as an object in such cases?

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Ongakuka
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Re: ga vs o

Post by Ongakuka » Mon 09.13.2010 8:27 pm

This is really just a particle problem isn't it. I think it would be wise to do more research on particles in general and find some examples, maybe here on this site.

1. だいすきいます is not proper Japanese to my knowledge. This should be だいすきです

2. おんなのこはおかあさんがだいすきです
 おんなのこはおかあさんをだいすきです

both of these are possible, essentially with the same meaning but a different nuance. However, there are few cases where particles が and を are exchangable. が and はare often exchangeable, with the result being completely different meanings. I'm afraid all I can say at this point is to try reading as many examples as you can.
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Nodlain
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Re: ga vs o

Post by Nodlain » Mon 09.13.2010 9:14 pm

Ah yea, I see the mistake I made.

daisuki desu
vs
aishite imasu

I didn't write the sentence down correctly from the material I was learning from.

onnanoko ha kanojo no inu ga daisuki desu
vs
ryoushin ha kodomo tachi o aishite imasu

I'll look around once I finish this chapter I'm on.

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furrykef
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Re: ga vs o

Post by furrykef » Tue 09.14.2010 2:30 am

Ongakuka wrote:both of these are possible, essentially with the same meaning but a different nuance.

Really? I'm quite surprised to see an adjective like 大好き taking an object. But then, my level is not very advanced...
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Re: ga vs o

Post by NileCat » Tue 09.14.2010 3:47 pm

furrykef wrote:
Ongakuka wrote:both of these are possible, essentially with the same meaning but a different nuance.

Really? I'm quite surprised to see an adjective like 大好き taking an object. But then, my level is not very advanced...

Furrykef, your question is about "を", isn't it?
女の子はお母さんが大好きです。
女の子はお母さん大好きです。

You're right. This usage of を seems kind of dubitable, grammatically speaking.

However, we actually use it very often as Ongakuka said.
I looked for the proper explanation on the internet but I couldn't find good one.

The following is about a kind of different usage though, it could show you the ambiguity of the を in Japanese grammar.
http://nhg.pro.tok2.com/reserch-2/reserch1-80.htm

Example sentence here is 私はテレビみたい! (not 私はテレビが見たい!)
According to this survey, 35% of people find it "uncomfortable". Which means 65% will find it fine.
:?

Nodlain
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Re: ga vs o

Post by Nodlain » Tue 09.14.2010 8:19 pm

Thanks for the replies(ya'll) and link Nilecat. I'll take a look when I get back in the office. :D

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Re: ga vs o

Post by furrykef » Tue 09.14.2010 8:23 pm

But at least it's easy to see where テレビを見たい comes from, because you do say テレビを見る. If anything, it's テレビが見たい that looks irregular. (Of course, it is nonetheless the "correct" form; I'm just saying that I don't understand why one should require が. I've heard that it's because 見たい is an i-adjective, but then, so is 見ない, and one can definitely say テレビを見ない, right?)

By contrast, お母さんを大好き seems bizarre because 大好き isn't like a verb in any way that I can think of. I'm not saying that people don't say it anyway, it's just that I don't see the logic at all...

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Ongakuka
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Re: ga vs o

Post by Ongakuka » Wed 09.15.2010 7:19 am

Well, here's how I would express the logic behind it.

With が it all comes down to the emphasis of the subject

私がオンガクカ = I (not anyone else) am Ongakuka.

あなたが好き = You are the oneI like/love

テレビが見たい = I wanna watch Television (not do something else.)

By contrast, お母さんを大好き seems bizarre because 大好き isn't like a verb in any way that I can think of.


Technically you could add a verb after that... but in Japanese, を is simply and object marker and does not need a verb :(
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richvh
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Re: ga vs o

Post by richvh » Wed 09.15.2010 10:23 am

Though rarely used, there is the verb 好く (from which 好き is derived.)
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Re: ga vs o

Post by NileCat » Wed 09.15.2010 1:43 pm

Interestingly, in Japanese, 好き(だ) is called <形容動詞>.
Literally translated, <adjective-verb>.
I know you call it <na-adjective> though...
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Re: ga vs o

Post by AJBryant » Thu 10.07.2010 7:51 pm

richvh wrote:Though rarely used, there is the verb 好く (from which 好き is derived.)


「好く」という言葉は好む。 :twisted:

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