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Postby themonk » Mon 11.08.2010 4:16 pm

Thanks a lot.
Last edited by themonk on Tue 08.02.2011 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby furrykef » Mon 11.08.2010 5:57 pm

Can you rip the sound clips for us so we can hear it?

The first one is clearly "shigoto o shimasu". (It's not the only way to say "work", by the way... when I think "work" I think "hataraku".) Without hearing the clip, I can't necessarily judge what's going on, but I suspect you're hearing a nazalization of the "g" in the male speaker. The nazalization sounds like the "ng" in "hang", though it also sounds a little alien, maybe because it's appearing at the start of the syllable rather than the end. Some speakers nasalize "g" all the time, some never do, and some do it only sometimes. So, basically, you only have to do it if you want to.
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby themonk » Mon 11.08.2010 7:20 pm

Dear Furrykef~
I am willing to bet that you are right on the money.

It is not alien. It is that i heard two versions, and i thought i was hallucinating. So I switched my typed-up notes back and forth a few times. Very silly.

Obviously, i am a beginner-beginner. But, luckily, my question caught your eye.

I am guessing that pimsleur wanted to expose us to both versions. Perhaps, unwittingly. It would have been nice, if the english speaker's script included a little note, explaining this difference. Maybe, most peole did not notice or care. Only fuddy duddy ones like me.

Thank you so much, Furrykef, for your quick reply. I feel a big piece of luggage off my back.

I will not put the clip here, because i think you are being modest in asking for it.Moreover, i do not know how to transfer it here. I would not mind ,though.

furrykef wrote:Can you rip the sound clips for us so we can hear it?

The first one is clearly "shigoto o shimasu". (It's not the only way to say "work", by the way... when I think "work" I think "hataraku".) Without hearing the clip, I can't necessarily judge what's going on, but I suspect you're hearing a nazalization of the "g" in the male speaker. The nazalization sounds like the "ng" in "hang", though it also sounds a little alien, maybe because it's appearing at the start of the syllable rather than the end. Some speakers nasalize "g" all the time, some never do, and some do it only sometimes. So, basically, you only have to do it if you want to.
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby chikara » Mon 11.08.2010 7:29 pm

oldwordstudy wrote:GO versus MO
Folks~
This is from pimsleur 1 units 20 something. ...

I believe it is units 27 and 28.

oldwordstudy wrote:... As it goes, a man and a woman take turns to say the words/sentences. When it first introduced the word "work," it was the man who pronouced it. I could swear i heard, shimotooshimasu. However, a few moments later on the cd, it was the woman's turn. I heard her saying something more like , sihigotooshimasu. ...

I can't listen to it at the moment but if I recall correctly it is "shigoto o shimasu" (仕事をします).

oldwordstudy wrote:...I tried listening to this portion at different spots. All the same. The guy sounded one way, and the woman the other. I gave up and moved on, in the hope that references to this word in future cds would shed light on it- - maybe that part of the cd was damaged. ....

I'll try and listen to it later today but I suspect the difference you are hearing is as furrykef-san has suggested.

oldwordstudy wrote:... Today, i was sown the word "want to spend (time)", sumoshitai desu. ......

sugoshitai desu, 過ごしたいです.
Last edited by chikara on Mon 11.08.2010 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby chikara » Mon 11.08.2010 7:39 pm

oldwordstudy wrote:..... I will not put the clip here ......

Doing so may also breach this site's policy in relation to copyrighted material. :)
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby furrykef » Mon 11.08.2010 9:34 pm

There's actually no rule regarding copyrighted material, though obviously we're not allowed to break the law. Posting two very short clips wouldn't be breaking the law, because it would fall under fair use.
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby chikara » Mon 11.08.2010 10:07 pm

furrykef wrote:There's actually no rule regarding copyrighted material, though obviously we're not allowed to break the law. ......

Posting copyrighted material is breaking the law in many countries. I'm no expert on copyright law in the USA though.

As you say, posting very short clips, providing they are correctly attributed to the copyright holder, may be OK but if it was my website I wouldn't want to take the risk. :)
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby themonk » Mon 11.08.2010 11:46 pm

Chikara san ~
Thank you so much for chiming in. You have a terrific memory.



chikara wrote:
oldwordstudy wrote:GO versus MO
Folks~
This is from pimsleur 1 units 20 something. ...

I believe it is units 27 and 28.

oldwordstudy wrote:... As it goes, a man and a woman take turns to say the words/sentences. When it first introduced the word "work," it was the man who pronouced it. I could swear i heard, shimotooshimasu. However, a few moments later on the cd, it was the woman's turn. I heard her saying something more like , sihigotooshimasu. ...

I can't listen to it at the moment but if I recall correctly it is "shigoto o shimasu" (仕事をします).

oldwordstudy wrote:...I tried listening to this portion at different spots. All the same. The guy sounded one way, and the woman the other. I gave up and moved on, in the hope that references to this word in future cds would shed light on it- - maybe that part of the cd was damaged. ....

I'll try and listen to it later today but I suspect the difference you are hearing is as furrykef-san has suggested.

oldwordstudy wrote:... Today, i was sown the word "want to spend (time)", sumoshitai desu. ......

sugoshitai desu, 過ごしたいです.
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby phreadom » Wed 11.10.2010 2:08 am

2: Do not post links to illegal sites (or illegal material, such as fansubs, scans of textbooks, Japanese music, etc)


That specifically refers to posting copyrighted material (and the examples given are examples of copyrighted material).

Short clips just to help identify a single "word" should be fine under fair use.

Examples of fair use include commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship.


In general, the less that is used in relation to the whole, e.g., a few sentences of a text for a book review, the more likely that the sample will be considered fair use.


and so forth.
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Re: pronunciation--"work" and "want to spend"

Postby chikara » Thu 11.11.2010 12:13 am

oldwordstudy wrote:Chikara san ~
Thank you so much for chiming in. You have a terrific memory.

My memory is not that good. I'd made notes when I first went through Pimsleur. :)

I had a chance to listen to the lessons again and the part you are referring to when both the man and woman say "shigoto" is about half way through lesson 26 when this word is first introduced. To my ear they are both saying "go" and not "mo".

I have tried attaching sound bites without any luck. :(
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