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Sentences

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Sentences

Postby HolyEyE » Mon 03.26.2012 6:29 pm

Firstly, hello everyone, i'm new to this forum.
I've gathered some sentences that I do not fully understand. They are all taken from the game "Tales Of Phantasia", old game, I know xD

1.今日は、チェスターと約束してたんだった。
"I made an appointment with chester for today."
What does that suffix mean?

2.みんあの声が、いつにも増して気合入ってるように聞こえるにけど。。。
"I heard that everyone's voice is calming and increases the 'flow' into your fighting spirit."
I dont know if the kanji is read "i" or "hai" in this sentece, and how will I know in the future in other sentences?

3.師匠って、トリスタンとかいうじいさんか?
"Master... Do you mean the one called 'Tristian' or something like that?"
What's the "jii" after the "iu" for?

4.昔、父さんは師匠に厳しく剣の手ほどきを受けたという話だけど。。。
"I am told that in old times, my father received master's harsh sword technique training."
What's the "ki" for? I really don't see why it's needed.
How is the kanji read in this part "いう話だ"? And how do I type it (it didn't let me choose that kanji until I wrote "wa" alone)?

5.でも、お前が心配でぬ。
"But I worry about you!"
What does the suffix "denu" mean?

6.はい、これを持って生きなさい。 (his mom just told him to be careful)
"I will take that in mind." - that's the way I understand it but I think I may be wrong, because the first kanji doesnt fit there according to the dictionary I use. However, it pretty much makes sense.
Literaly it should mean something like "Yes, I will live with that in my possession."


Please help ! :?
HolyEyE
 
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Re: Sentences

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 03.26.2012 7:41 pm

HolyEyE wrote:1.今日は、チェスターと約束してたんだった。
"I made an appointment with chester for today."
What does that suffix mean?

What suffix? You mean all of してたんだった? It's して いた の だった in spoken form.

2.みんあの声が、いつにも増して気合入ってるように聞こえるにけど。。。
"I heard that everyone's voice is calming and increases the 'flow' into your fighting spirit."
I dont know if the kanji is read "i" or "hai" in this sentece, and how will I know in the future in other sentences?

Usually it's はいる, but in this sentence I don't know - it's いる in a lot of older expressions. The only way I've found to solve this problem is to research each instance case by case and add an Anki flashcard. I don't think I trust the furigana provided by tatoeba.org, but still, you can search tatoeba.org, alc.co.jp, the EDICT sentence collection, or the web in general for your expression with kana versions of the verb and see what comes up.


3.師匠って、トリスタンとかいうじいさんか?
"Master... Do you mean the one called 'Tristian' or something like that?"
What's the "jii" after the "iu" for?

That would be 祖父さん ... トリスタンとか言う祖父さんか The old man called Tristan
(I'm not sure what the 「か」 is doing there... it's usually Aさんと言う人, 'the person called (Mr.) A'. ;
I -think- you have a とか ... 'called Tristan (among other names / as part of a longer name)'. Or a typo.)

4.昔、父さんは師匠に厳しく剣の手ほどきを受けたという話だけど。。。
"I am told that in old times, my father received master's harsh sword technique training."
What's the "ki" for? I really don't see why it's needed.
How is the kanji read in this part "いう話だ"? And how do I type it (it didn't let me choose that kanji until I wrote "wa" alone)?

You mean the last mora of the word 手解き? http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?enc=UTF- ... x=02930500
話 is はなし there, as it always is when it's a standalone noun (though it can also appear in a verb or as a suffix with other readings.)

5.でも、お前が心配でぬ。
"But I worry about you!"
What does the suffix "denu" mean?

Maybe a native can tell for sure, but I can't be certain without more context. Probably でぬ is just dialect for だね.

6.はい、これを持って生きなさい。 (his mom just told him to be careful)
"I will take that in mind." - that's the way I understand it but I think I may be wrong, because the first kanji doesnt fit there according to the dictionary I use. However, it pretty much makes sense.
Literaly it should mean something like "Yes, I will live with that in my possession."

I have no idea what you're talking about. That sentence means, "Here, have this and live." It's an order to someone (なさい form) to possess something and live. Without context I can't tell exactly if it's implying 'take this and hold on to it as long as you live' or 'take this and hold onto it in order that you will live', or if possibly it's a typo for the much more likely 持って行きなさい 'Take this with you when you go / on your journey.'
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Re: Sentences

Postby HolyEyE » Mon 03.26.2012 9:12 pm

Sorry for making it hard for you to understand which parts of the sentences I meant. I copied this from another forum in which i posted it and when I put it here the underlines were lost.

1. Yes.

2. It seems like too much effort for one kanji, I'll just learn it with time (and i'm not using Anki btw).

3. Now I feel stupid for asking, I've heared "jii-san" so many times in anime xD. I think the "ka" is a simple question particle no?

4. Seems legit.

5. I'll have to take your word for it, because natives live on the other side of the world to where i'm from xD.

6. Sometimes I fail to see if the speaker refers to himself or to the listener... The reason I translated it to english as "take that in mind"/"live with that" is because - as I mentioned - the speaker's mother just told him to be careful. He will not be possisng a physical object, but a thought in his head. I hope you understand.
Last edited by HolyEyE on Tue 03.27.2012 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
HolyEyE
 
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Re: Sentences

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 03.26.2012 9:37 pm

HolyEyE wrote:
2. It seems like too much effort for one kanji, I'll just learn it with time (and i'm not using Anki btw).


Well, Anki or another SRS program or physical flashcards or wordlists or whatever, I meant that you'll want to learn some phrases where you know for certain which one is correct. That will help you going forward. I believe the words have too much overlap in meaning to distinguish by any rules.


3. Now I feel stupid for asking, I've heared "jii-san" so many times in anime xD. I think the "ka" is a simple question particle no?

I don't think so. That would be a strange place for the question か, but let's check ALC...
http://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=%E3%81%A8 ... %86&ref=sa

Whatever the derivation, the phrase Aとか言うB doesn't seem to mean anything different from Aと言うB

6. Sometimes I fail to see if the speaker refers to himself or to the listener... The reason I translated it to english as "take that in mind"/"live with that" is because - as I mentioned - the speaker's mother just told him to be careful. He will not be possisng a physical object, but a thought in his head. I hope you understand.

Whether it's an idea or a thing is not the problem. The problem is, if the mother says '気をつけて下さい' and the son then says 'はい、これを持って生きなさい', then the son is telling the mother to have something, and in a very high-handed way.
Also, my IME is strongly opposed to converting もっていきなさい as anything other than 持って行きなさい.
So I have several problems with this scenario -
The kanji seems like a mistake, unless something in the context involves life preserving objects or advice, then it might possibly be a play on words. But it's weird.
If the son is saying this to the mother, then the tone is wrong for a son to his mother. Sons do not normally treat their mothers as inferiors and give them orders, but rather the other way around.
However, if the mother is saying this to the son, it seems wrong for it to be following a set phrase that can be taken as 'farewell'.
Anyway, I think you should examine that scene again because I think something is not quite right with what you've described.
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Re: Sentences

Postby HolyEyE » Mon 03.26.2012 10:08 pm

2. Acknowledged.

3. I'm sorry, I thought you were refering to the last "ka". Anyway, I don't know this "ALC" site but I think you are wrong. "Toka" is a single word, and it is not equivalent to "to". "Toka" means "or something like that".

6. Well, the speaker's mother is ill, but not ill to the death. And besides, he doesn't give her anything, that's whats weird here...
I'm going through it again and I'll bring some pictures (luckly it's in the beginning of the game :colonthree: ).

EDIT: ooooooooooooops.It turns out that the mother tells it to the son, which makes a lot more sense now :(
Sorry for confusing you... But I was as much confused as you were lol xD.

2nd EDIT: And damn it, the kanji "生" is not used for いきなさい... I think i was reaaally tired when looking at this sentence lol.
HolyEyE
 
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Native language: Hebrew

Re: Sentences

Postby SomeCallMeChris » Mon 03.26.2012 11:42 pm

HolyEyE wrote:3. I'm sorry, I thought you were refering to the last "ka". Anyway, I don't know this "ALC" site but I think you are wrong. "Toka" is a single word, and it is not equivalent to "to". "Toka" means "or something like that".

As you like. It's not an important matter, it's just the first time I'd seen Aとかいう人. However, ALC - which is a source of very useful Japanese/English translations and definitions (or technically, a portal to 英辞郎 which is that source) - says,
とかいう【形】
certain(名前は分かるが初めて言及する)〔【用法】限定用法で、後ろに人・物・場所などの名前が来る。〕
~とかいうもの
something called
thing〈話〉〔耳新しい名前などを引用して、主に「this [that, the] + 名詞 + thing」の形で。〕

Along with various sentence examples in addition to these pattern examples, suggests it's usually 'the one called _', 'the so-called _', or 'a certain _'.

On the other hand, 大辞林 tells us about とか、
〔1〕 〔補説〕 格助詞「と」に副助詞「か」の付いたもの
不確かな想像や伝聞などを表す場合に用いられる。

Which is to say that とか is a compound of とand か, and that it reports (in the definition for the pattern in question) information that is not known for a certain fact, but by possibly unreliable conjecture or hearsay.
In other words, whether とか is a word or two particles is a matter of definition, and there is a small difference in certainty - whether it warrants a difference in translation is perhaps a case by case matter, or a matter of opinion, or both.

EDIT: ooooooooooooops.It turns out that the mother tells it to the son, which makes a lot more sense now :(
Sorry for confusing you... But I was as much confused as you were lol xD.

2nd EDIT: And damn it, the kanji "生" is not used for いきなさい... I think i was reaaally tired when looking at this sentence lol.

Ah-hah! Now it all begins to make sense! I'm not entirely convinced that 'take care' is a remark worthy of this command, but I suppose that depending on the rest of the conversation it could be, especially if the son has been dithering about departing.
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Re: Sentences

Postby HolyEyE » Tue 03.27.2012 9:19 am

Thank you very much for everything, very helpful :)
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